How Ben Kaura Uses Yoga Philosophy To Fix Modern Mental Overload
Ancient yoga might explain your anxiety better than your therapist.
I just sat down with Ben Kalra.
He’s taught 4,000+ yoga classes and logged 1,500+ hours of training.
In this episode you’ll learn
How ancient yoga sutras diagnose modern anxiety, burnout and constant mental noise
A practical 8-limb roadmap to move from “workout yoga” to self-realization
How to use meditation and breathwork to regulate your nervous system and sleep
We dive into the details later in the conversation.
If you like the episode, please subscribe.
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
02:44 What yoga actually is beyond stretching and workout culture
08:39 Yoga Sutras, Patanjali and why this text survived 2,000 years
11:17 The eight limbs of yoga, explained in plain English
16:43 Practice + non-attachment as a framework for ambitious people
28:54 Meditation goals in your 30s vs your 60s and 70s
31:12 Ben’s nightly breath retention practice to calm an overactive mind
39:15 How to start cultivating non-attachment in a hustler world
41:05 “I can’t meditate, my mind is too busy” (Ben’s answer)
44:19 Quitting weed, nervous system regulation and better sleep through meditation
53:52 My Vipassana story, ADHD and ego death-level pain
1:08:03 Why going deeper into pain can unlock something else
1:17:27 Meditating every day until death and preparing for a “good death”
1:19:41 Meaning of life, consciousness and living well in the world
Listen
Support the show
💧 Vitadrop — Healthy Hydration & Vitamins (Sleep / Hydration / Focus & Collagen) — Use the code ‘TOT’ to get 25% off your purchase @ https://www.vitadrop.com.au/TOT
👟 Vivobarefoot — My favourite barefoot shoes that I wear everyday — Use the code ‘TOT’ for 20% off @ www.[vivobarefoot.com/](https://vivobarefoot.com/)
🥗 Blueprint — Longevity supplements and meal solutions by Bryan Johnson — Use the code ‘TOT’ for 10% off your purchase @ [friends.bryanjohnson.com/TOT](https://friends.bryanjohnson.com/TOT)
📖 5 Minute Journal — My favourite daily gratitude journal — Use the code ‘TOT10’ for 10% off @ https://www.intelligentchange.com/?rfsn=4732871.491170e&utm_source=refersion&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=4732871.491170e
📝 Notion — My favourite note taking app I use for my business and personal life everyday — Use the code ‘TOT’ to support the podcast @ https://affiliate.notion.so/TOT
😴 Hostage Tape — A sleep mouth tape I use every night — Use code for 10% off @ https://www.hostagetape.com/products/buy?snowball=ADAM90598
🐄 Carnivore Aurelius Collagen — Collagen I use daily — Use code ‘TOT’ for 10% off @ https://www.carnivoreaurelius.com/TOT
👓 Blue Light Glasses — Glasses I wear every night — Use code ‘TOT’ for 10% off @ [www.blockbluelight.com.au/?ref=TOT](https://www.blockbluelight.com.au/?ref=TOT)
📵 Opal — Blocking iPhone app app I use daily - Follow the link to support the podcast @ www.[applink.opal.so/invite-friend?rc=EA66X&rId=AIriLLeGL0Nofh8MOpdNLEwgEF53&rNme=Admet](https://applink.opal.so/invite-friend?rc=EA66X&rId=AIriLLeGL0Nofh8MOpdNLEwgEF53&rNme=Admet)
Here’s the full transcript:
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (00:00.172)
Welcome to That One Time with Adam Metwally, the podcast bridging the gap between health, hustle and happiness. We are at podcast for a while in Chelsea, New York City. And I’m with Ben Kaura, a yoga teacher who has taught over 4,000 classes, has done over 1,500 hours of yoga training, is also trained in Pranayama breath work, mantra and yogic meditation, is a yoga philosophy teacher, writer and photographer. What’s up, man?
What’s going on? Thank you for having me on the show. It’s an honor. Thank you for coming on. Why do you think yoga philosophy written over 2000 years ago still resonates today? Such a good question. And a lot of these sacred yoga texts that people reference all the time today, like the yoga sutras and the Bhagavad Gita, they were written somewhere around 2000 years ago.
And a lot of people have the perception that they were written exclusively for like monks and ascetics and sadhus, like people who have renounced material life. And there very well might be some truth to that. However, I find the material in these sacred texts to be incredibly relevant to the modern world. know, like in the yoga sutras, they talk about the reasons why we suffer is ignorance of our true self, the ego.
desire and our attachments to the fulfillments of our desire, aversion to discomfort and fear of death or clinging on to life. You know, in the Bhagavad Gita, it talks all about attachment and how acting from our selfish desires brings suffering and you know, all of these things that are just so universal. And so we get to see that humans really haven’t changed that much in 2000 years.
Our circumstances have changed a whole lot. Technology has developed. We live different lives in a variety of ways. But our minds, the human mind is the human mind at the end of the day. And of course that will continue to evolve, especially over a period of 2000 years. But it’s clear that 2000 years ago, humans were struggling with a lot of the same things that we’re struggling with now. And even though anxiety, depression, all of these mental afflictions might manifest in different ways today.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (02:23.486)
their sources remain the same. And so these yoga texts address the sources of mental suffering. And I don’t think those sources have changed at all. I’ve been thinking about the sources of mental suffering. Sometimes it seems like it’s chemical instead of environmental. Like the things we’re eating, the abundance of information is leading people to be more anxious and stressed than maybe the
teachings would have expected. So I’m wondering if they’re still as useful with the intensity of the inputs. Yeah, I think that’s incredibly relevant, you know, as the inputs and the circumstances that we find ourselves in. We are in this age of overstimulation, information overload. But I think that even makes the teachings more applicable. In the Yoga Sutras or in the Bhagavad Gita, it does say how
you know, before we meditate, we should bring ourselves to the point where we aren’t eating too much or too little, you know, we’re eating enough, we’re not sleeping too much or sleeping too little, we’re sleeping the right amount. So there, you know, there, there is this process of kind of setting up our circumstances in a way where we are ready for spiritual practice. But at the same time, I think spiritual practice like meditation helps us get to the point where we can establish those circumstances in the first place. So I do think like, you know, eating the good food and
stuff with not too many added chemicals and getting enough sleep every day. Like that stuff prepares us to meditate well, but meditating well also should then inform us. It’ll bring us this new awareness and this new mindfulness to then eat well and sleep well and interact well. So, yeah. So for those who don’t know what yoga is, what is it? Yoga is self-realization. So it’s not the workout class at core power.
It’s also that. that’s the thing. Like yoga can be defined in a million different ways. Like if we go to the root word of yoga, a huge Y-U-J, means to yoke, it means union, it means connecting. But in practice, there are so many different definitions of yoga from really wise yoga masters and they’re all correct. know, so yoga is self-realization. Yoga is meditation. Yoga is concentration. Yoga is
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (04:53.991)
Yoga is skill in action is what the Bhagavad Gita says. The Gita also says yoga is equanimity. So yoga is cultivating the equanimous mind. But in the modern world, yoga is also stretching. That’s part of the evolution of it. So I think I try not to be too critical of the workout culture of yoga because that’s just part of it. And that’s part of the natural evolution of things. And I think it makes sense that yoga has evolved to be
more physical because we live really sedentary lives. You know, back in the old days, thousands of years ago, when people were like foraging for food and all that, like they were on the go. So it made sense that their yoga practice was very sedentary and they would sit in meditation for long hours, but we already sit for long hours today. So it’s quite beneficial and quite mindful to have our yoga practice be more dynamic. But
Our yoga practice should always, if we practice for a long enough time over the course of years and years of steady practice, it should generally slowly evolve from being just a workout to being this practice of realization of the true self. Interesting. So you wouldn’t say that it’s necessarily a bastardization of yoga as it’s become more of a workout? You’re trying to trick me into saying something. No, just kidding. No.
I think it can be. mean, you know, I think as long as it’s done with like respect to the traditions of yoga, I say go for it. Yeah, you know, this is always going to be a thing, you know, like I always joke about like how some yoga classes are actually just a Pilates class where they say namaste at the end. I’m saying a few of those. But you know, at the same time, like I went through a period in my early twenties where I was doing a whole lot of hot
yoga and it very much was a workout and it was really intense and it was in a hot room and I was sweating a lot but there was still purpose to it and at the end of the class we’d still all sit and ohm together and I think at that period of life I needed that hot power sweaty yoga workout class because I had all this energy I was working an office job I was wound up you know I needed to put that energy somewhere and now my yoga practice is slower
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (07:17.263)
and it’s more controlled, it’s more steady. But I think it needed to go through that arc in order to get there. So I’m kind of cool with all forms of yoga. I have my opinions, but I think any kind of yoga that anyone is doing, anytime anyone can just be in their body and be in their breath and not be staring at a screen or not be distracted by something, I think that’s a plus. But hopefully that leads us toward the...
the more meditative practices at some point along the way. Yeah. So don’t watch the yoga on YouTube because you’re staring at a screen to do yoga. Yeah. I mean, I think doing yoga on YouTube is great, but I think it will never have the same effect as going to a practice space or going to a yoga studio and practicing in person with a teacher. But if that’s all you got access to go for it. You know, I’ve got the same
yoga video I’ve been doing for a good part of maybe 10 years. Wow. It’s maybe not 10 years, but a long time. It’s the same 15 minutes. And it’s funny. It’s, it’s traveled with me across the globe and it’s the same, like the same video. And I love it so much. It’s like the perfect little morning routine. So I feel like it’s, um, but I’ve changed significantly as I’ve practiced yoga more and more. Yes.
So it’s not actually the same practice, you know, because the poses might stay the same and the video might stay the same, but you’re not the same. So like every, I totally value repetition in yoga. So I think that’s a great thing to do is find a practice and find a recipe that works for you and do it every day because then you get to be the variable that changes. Then you get to witness your change and your growth over time. Instead of if you do a different practice every day, then the practice is the thing that changes. But like, I’m curious how have,
How has your relationship to that same practice changed over those like eight-ish years? And like, how has your experience changed in that? Like, what is that to you? Well, it’s been a baseline to determine where my body’s at because I know where my body has been at peak yoga four, five, six days a week versus now where it’s a lot less. And you can just tell the things that are shifting and where the tightness is that not normally was there.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (09:41.76)
So yeah, an amazing baseline. And sometimes you don’t need new things to get the same, to get a good outcome out of it. You can just repeat over and over again. So yeah. And you know, some days you can sprinkle a little bit of extra this or a little bit of extra that, but it can be nice for the recipe to stay the same. It’s like when you eat the same food every day.
Your body knows what to expect. Your body knows how to digest that food. And there is benefit to mixing in a little variety. You go out to dinner with friends a couple of days a week. You try some new sauces or spices a couple of days a week. But I think that consistency in our yoga practice, it allows us to move through the rest of our lives, which is dynamic and ever-changing in a way that’s a little more stable. On the yoga sutras, what are they exactly?
The Yoga Sutras are, it’s a sacred text that was written about 2000 years ago, like the most accurate guess that we have is around maybe 200 CE. And the Yoga Sutras were likely passed down orally for hundreds of years before that. you know, like the year 200-ish was around when they were transcribed the first time. They were transcribed in the Sanskrit language and almost all of the sacred Yoga texts were written in Sanskrit.
and they were written by someone named Patanjali. And we don’t really know much about life 2000 years ago. Like the record keeping was not good. They didn’t have the cloud back then, you know, just like upload. So there’s no like photos of Patanjali. Yeah, exactly. Like we just have what we have, which is this text. And it essentially systematizes the teachings of yoga into a pretty concise formulaic path.
So the yoga, there’s 196 yoga sutras and sutra means thread. So each sutra is like a thread that you can pull on and there’s like endless wisdom in there. So some yoga sutras are only like three words long and they’re kept really concise because again, it was passed down orally. So people would chant the yoga sutras and that’s how they would maintain it and pass it on. But over time, what’s really cool is that more and more people, both people from the East,
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (12:03.727)
Indian people and people from the West who are scholars of Sanskrit continue to translate and develop their own commentaries on the Yoga Sutras because the Sanskrit language, there’s no one-to-one translations from a Sanskrit word to an English word, very rarely. And so there is room for interpretation. It’s interesting. Like we see two people who might be equally great scholars of Sanskrit who can read and write the language and they might translate a Yoga Sutra quite differently.
And so I think the more translations we look at, the more we can gain from these little threads of knowledge. So it’s a really cool text that I’ve taken a lot of interest in. Yeah. If there was like a national yoga competition, which country do you think would be the best at it? Oh man. You know, there are yoga competitions. Yeah, it’s a whole thing. There’s yoga competitions. That kind of defeats the purpose of. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting, right?
Yeah, there’s these yoga competitions where it’s just like a weightlifting competition where like people can like contort themselves. Yeah, it’s essentially like somewhere in between like gymnastics and calisthenics. Like people will do like handstands while their legs are in lotus position and all kinds of crazy back bends and arm balances. And yeah, it’s a whole thing. I haven’t been to one nor competed in one, but it’s a thing. We can add that to your
list of things. Yoga world champion, Pan Am yoga world champion. I might only be 29, but these knees, these knees ain’t 29. So you don’t think, uh, you don’t have a, who do you think’s the best? Man, you know, I did meet a friend of a friend who like won one of these yoga competitions. Yeah. Um, but I don’t know if you look back at some of the like OG yoga teachers,
You know, they used to do some crazy stuff back when it was these Indian dudes in these like, you know, diaper underwear, like uniforms, you know, they used to do some, some crazy positions, but, you know, all respect, but I’m Indian by the way. So I’m allowed to talk a little bit. But yeah, I don’t know, you know, it’s such an interesting thing, right? We know that yoga is really about meditation and self-realization, but there is still.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (14:31.364)
this like chase and this pursuit of the best posture. And we see that even with some of the like really legendary yoga teachers from like a hundred years ago. So we have to find this balance. Like our yoga practice should, it should be disciplined and there is a benefit to like pursuing more space in the body and stuff. But there is a point where it becomes ego. Yeah. Yeah. So if the yoga sutras were written today, what would change and what do you think would?
I think what could change is as we get deeper into the yoga sutras, so the yoga sutras is divided into four padhas and pada means like chapter basically or part. And as we get further into like the third and fourth padhas, it gets kind of like a little bit more and more esoteric, a little bit more and more lofty and a little bit less practical. So I think if they were written today,
it would just have a little bit more practicality, especially as we get further into the sutras. But this is why I love the sutras, you know, because also padas one and two are very practical and you can apply them into everyday life quite well. so what’s an example of that? An example of that could be how, let’s see.
You know, my favorite yoga sutra is 1.12, which says, which means the state of nerodaha, and nerodaha means like stillness basically. So the state of stillness, the state of yoga is really what that means. The state of yoga can be attained through practice and non-attachment. And I think this is relevant and very practical because regardless of what our practice is,
For you, it’s, you know, in this context, it’s podcasting. You know, I’m sure you do plenty of other things in life, but for you as a podcaster, you will attain like what you want as a podcaster. If you just show up for the practice of podcasting and you’re very consistent with that and very dedicated to that. But at the same time, you have to remain non-attached to the results. So if you show up to practice your podcasting, you know, and you get all the good guests and you
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (16:52.579)
do all the right things, you get the right camera set up, you get the high quality mics, you run the social media pages, you upload the episodes on Spotify every single Wednesday and Friday. But you’re so attached to results, you’re gonna drive yourself crazy and you’re gonna feel like you’re not accomplishing anything even if you are, because you’re like, why am I not at a million listeners yet? It’s like, well, it takes some time. But if you are just a non-attached without the practice of really showing up,
then nothing really even happens. So, having the combination of showing up for your practice day in and day out, whether it’s podcasting or, you know, making art or making music or teaching yoga or practicing yoga, whatever it may be. And you can show up with dedication, devotion and care while also being non-attached from the fruits of that labor. Then we’re just going to put ourselves in a position where we’re improving our craft. We’re making a difference in the world. We’re developing ourselves.
we’re creating connection and we’re not bound to success or failure. We’re developing this equanimity where we can be okay with how things are regardless of the results. So I think that’s something anybody can put into practice. Yeah. You make some good points. I feel like the challenge I’ve had with a lot of spiritual teachers is that they are very non-attached, but don’t do anything. I think you’ve, you’ve touched on the key point.
the very airy-fairy, overly spiritual type that don’t actually get anything done. So that balance is critical. Yeah. Yeah. I want to touch on the eight limbs of yoga. Would you be able to run me through what they are and elaborate on each one? Sure. Yeah. So the first limb is the yamas and yama means restraint.
So these are like the ethical restraints, which include non-harming, truthfulness, non-stealing.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (18:57.214)
Brahmacharya which is basically like acting for the highest good or right use of energy and then the last one is non-attachment. And then the next and that’s all the first limb of yoga. So basically the ethical restraints of yoga. The second limb of yoga is the Niyamas which means like the observances. kind of like the ethical or mental observances. So how we kind of observe our own minds basically. And you know these are quite similar. So these are
purity or cleanliness of the physical body, contentment of the mind, discipline.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (19:39.196)
self-study, so the study of the self or the study of the sacred texts. And then finally we have devotion or surrender to something greater. So these are the ways that we can kind of cultivate our own mind to be well in the world and to be well within ourselves. So those first two limbs are all just about like yoga ethics, basically setting up our minds to be receptive for what follows. So what follows next is limb number three, which is asana. And, you know, in the modern world asana
means our postural yoga practice. So in the modern world this means down dog, warrior two, chaturanga, up dog, know, et cetera. But when the yoga sutras were written, asana just meant seat. It just meant your seated position. And this is a whole limb within itself because if you do not cultivate a strong upright seat, then there’s no point in practicing.
I’m sinking into my chair over here, right? These chairs are little too comfortable, you know? If you don’t cultivate a strong upright seat where your frame is open and your lungs can come forward, there’s no point in practicing the fourth limb, the next limb, which is pranayama, which is breathing practices, breath control. So first, you know, we do limbs one and two, and they don’t have to go directly in order, but it kind of makes sense to put them in order. You know, first we cultivate the mind that is fit.
to practice. Next we establish our seat, our asana. Then once our seat is established, we are ready to practice pranayama, which are the breathing exercises. The breathing exercises really help us tap into the control of what’s called our prana. And our prana is like our life force, our vitality. And that can really be controlled if we control our breath. Next is pratyahara, which is the withdrawal of the senses or turning inward. So
Once we’ve established our breath, this is how we prepare for formal meditation is turning our senses inward. instead of being distracted by whatever is happening outside of ourselves, we turn our senses inward, almost to where it doesn’t matter where you are. You could be in a monastery or a temple or a podcast studio or out on the busy streets of Manhattan. Either way, we’re gonna withdraw our senses and turn ourselves inward. So it doesn’t really matter where you are.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (22:01.421)
turning inwards that we’re not distracted by what comes from outside. This then prepares us for the sixth limb of yoga, is dharana, which is concentration. So really in yoga, meditation is all about concentration. So our yoga is not about just observing the mind. That’s helpful. And I would call that like mindfulness exercises, which are beautiful.
But in the yogic tradition, meditation is all about concentration on the object of our meditation. So choosing something to concentrate on, which could be our breath or it could be a mantra. It could be a candle flame. It could be, I suppose it could be the thoughts themselves, but sometimes that’s not always productive. Just toiling in our own thoughts or our own anxiety.
It could be your third eye, it could be your inner consciousness, but choosing something to try to concentrate your awareness on and continuing to guide your awareness and your attention back to that. That’s what the sixth limb of dharana means. And then the seventh limb is dhyana, which means meditation. So that is the state of meditation when that concentration becomes a little bit more effortless. This is what you might call like a flow state. So if my meditation is staying concentrated on my breath, which
The Buddhist would call like Anapanam meditation is just breath awareness meditation. Then Dharana, the sixth limb of yoga is when I really try to concentrate and focus my attention on my breath. The seventh limb of yoga is when that concentration becomes effortless and really I’m just in my breath. I’m not being constantly pulled out of it as much. And then the eighth and final limb is Samadhi, which means meditative absorption. So this is when you become absorbed in the meditation.
This is when if I was meditating on my breath, I almost become absorbed in my breath and like my ego falls away, my thoughts fall away. Everything outside of that falls away and it’s the state of being absorbed in meditation. And this may or may not come, you know, the way I think of it is we can practice the first six limbs, but limbs seven and eight, that’s just a result of the practicing of the other ones and we can’t be attached to it. Yeah. It’s the same attitude we were talking about before where you show up and do the work and then
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (24:17.721)
have to just let go. All you can do is show up, try to be a good person in the world, try to sit upright, calm your breath. You’re doing great. Your seat looks great. know, concentrate on your object of meditation and yeah, just let the rest come. And it will feel harder at first if you are inexperienced in meditation, but the more it’s just like a muscle, you know, it’s like if you don’t lift weights and then you show up to do a bicep curl.
you’re only going to be able to do five pounds, maybe 10 pounds. Speak for yourself. I’m only going to be able to do five pounds, maybe 10 pounds. But the more you show up, it’s really like a muscle that easier it gets. So I’ve gone on and off with meditating and doing yoga every morning for a number of years. Is it better to meditate first and then do yoga or do yoga and then meditate?
Whichever one you can do. I say whichever one you can make happen. I think either one is fantastic. For I would say maybe most people, it ends up being do the postural yoga practice first, move your body first, and then sit in meditation. Because number one, you get to kind of get some energy out and move things around, stir up the energy a little bit, establish your breath by moving your body.
And then also it just stretches you out so that you can sit a little bit easier. It’s a little bit easier to sit when your body’s open versus when you’re super tight. But for some people, if you just are oriented and just feels enjoyable for you to just go straight to your meditation cushion and then move your body, go for it. Got it. Is there generally a formal pathway? Because from what I understood, I heard somewhere that yoga
is a stepping stone to getting to sit in meditation. Is that correct? Yeah, you could look at it that way, you know? But I try not to be strict about it. Yeah. Because I think it’s fine if someone does yoga and doesn’t meditate. And I think it’s fine if someone meditates without doing yoga. Yeah. But generally, the way it works for most people is that they do kind of come first to the physical embodied yoga practice.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (26:38.665)
And then that opens up a curiosity about the more meditative practices because the physical postural asana practice is so tangible. Like everybody can connect to that. Everybody can get in a downward facing dog or a forward fold or a back bend and like feel something and feel better and feel more mindful and feel more connected to their body and feel like they can breathe a little bit better. So it makes sense, I would say for the vast majority of people to start there.
but I think it’s fine to have one without the other. know, like we live in such an open world that it also depends how much time do you have. Like some people are just so busy, they’re not going to have time to do both. They might just have time to meditate or do a physical yoga practice. What do you think is better if you had to only pick one? Oh man, I would say it depends on the person, you know? It depends on the person, but as we age in life, meditation certainly becomes more important.
But I could even contradict that because as we get older, it’s so important to remain supple in your body and to stay limber. Let’s go do them both. I was just working with my parents last week when I was in Baltimore where they live and I was prescribing them home practices to do. was like, y’all got to do this every day. They’re not that old. Will they do it? What’s that? Will they do it? I hope so. I keep texting them and checking in to make sure they do it, but I think they will.
So they’re both so important, you know, I think for someone who has stress and anxiety, sitting in meditation can do well, but also for someone who has stress and anxiety, sitting in meditation might not be very productive because they might just sit in their own shit and they might just sit and suffer. So it might actually be beneficial for them to physically move through some of that anxiety. You know, for someone who lifts weights and is maybe like a bodybuilder or an athlete, the physical yoga practice probably very important because it could improve their performance and help.
regulate their nervous system, but also just help them remain a little bit, you know, as I said, more supple and open in their body. So I think it just depends, but I think both are massively important. And I think for me personally, meditation is more important, but that’s cause I’m thinking a little bit bigger. Like my goal is to
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (28:54.298)
You know, I sit in meditation currently every day. haven’t always, I’ve been meditating for about a decade and I haven’t always meditated every day, at least for the last couple of months, I’ve been very consistent. My goal is to get to the point where when I’m like in my 60s, my 70s, know, hopefully I’m lucky enough to live that long. I want to be meditating for like, maybe like two hours every day.
And that’s just like where I see myself going. But right now, like I can’t meditate for two hours a day, physically or mentally. Like on one hand, my body hurts after I sit for like 30, 40 minutes and it’s not worth it to just keep my body folded up in a meditative seat for longer than that. And then on the other hands, I’m busy. I’m out in the world. I’m doing stuff like I’m teaching all the time. I’m traveling.
really like trying to build like my yoga school in a way and I’m trying to be out in the world interacting with other people, other students. And so it’s not productive for me to just sit at home and meditate. It is a little bit, but then I should be out in the world. That’s the stage of life I’m in. But when I’m old, I want to just be taking care of animals and meditating, you know, because also that’s how you prepare for a good death, I think is to be very established in these really slow.
Meditative practices that teach you that you are not this mind or body you are your immortal unchanging consciousness So that I think that as someone who’s always been a little bit afraid of death I think that feels resonant as somewhere to guide my life to as I age What’s your meditation practice right now? It’s really simple I Don’t do any guided meditations really what I do is I sit and it’s at a different time every day like I meditated
last night, last thing before bed, which is what I do a lot of the time to be honest, because it just feels like a good barrier between waking and sleeping. But sometimes I meditate in the morning, sometimes I meditate in middle of day, but I would say most commonly it’s at night, it just works for me. And what I do is I sit down and I practice breath retentions to start, because when I sit down at first, my mind is too active, which I’m sure so many people resonate with that.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (31:12.244)
It’s so hard to corral my mind. So my best tool I’ve realized over the years is breath retentions, which we call kumbhakas. So I retain the inhale and I retain the exhale. And I just really slow down my breath. that mean by retaining the inhale and the exhale? Like I inhale all the way and then I hold it for however long I comfortably can. I don’t force it, but I do retain for a while.
And it’s a muscle I’ve gotten better at it over the years. And then I exhale all the way and then I hold the bottom of the exhale. And I find that this also drops me into my diaphragm and my lungs. And when I’m feeling stressed and anxious, you know, like I’m not breathing well. So some days where I’m feeling really anxious, I’m not really using my diaphragm and my lungs like I should be. So I think by holding and pausing and retaining my breath and working that, it helps my mind slow down.
and it helps me really drop into my body. And after anywhere from five to 15 minutes of that, then I feel like I can sit well in meditation and start to tap into something a little bit deeper than my own mind. So that’s all I do. Pretty simple. Just quickly though, I love doing this podcast. If it’s positively impacted you in some way and you would like to support us, please subscribe. By subscribing, it allows us to build a much bigger base of listeners, which results
in better guests, better production and a better show overall. Alternatively, please take a look at the affiliate links of the products that I use and love in the comments below and consider purchasing using those links. They’ll give you a discount and they’ll also provide the podcast a small kickback. These are two very easy ways for you to support us as we continue to grow the podcast that we absolutely love doing. Thank you for your support.
And now back to the episode. Non-attachment is a...
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (33:16.923)
that comes out of meditation after a while.
How do you cultivate non-attachment in a hyperproductive and hustling world? You mentioned before that you’re unable to meditate as much as you would like because of this hyperproduction and hustle. So what’s the balance? Great question. And yeah, it seems like a contradiction, right? Like the yoga teacher doesn’t have enough time to meditate. You know, the meditation teacher doesn’t have enough time to meditate. like, well,
I do meditate, I swear, I swear I meditate. I swear I meditate, but I almost never meditate for longer than like 30 or 40 minutes a day. Even though I think that would be good to do like a 30 minutes sit in the morning, 30 minutes at night in a perfect world.
The state of non-attachment, you’re right, it does become cultivated from a meditation practice. And I think the reason is that our meditation practice, as I spoke to earlier, it teaches us that we are not the mind nor are we the body. We are something deeper. We are the unchanging, immortal consciousness within. And when we really, and that’s easy to understand conceptually, but it’s hard to actually.
almost like agree with and embody because we identify as our bodies, we identify as our minds, our egos. You you ask me who I am and I say, I’m Ben. I’m a yoga teacher. But even just saying that is rooted in ego. Like if I was actually speaking truthfully, I would say I am unchanging. I am unchanging, pure.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (35:07.676)
Consciousness and so are you my friend, you know try that at the DMV. I know
That’s what it says on my license actually is pure consciousness. Write a ticket to that. But you know, once we really start to understand this, then we don’t have to be attached to the things that happen to us. And of course this is still something I’m working on. Like I am still very much my ego and my mind and my body, but I really, really, really, really believe that I am not those things.
And so I’m constantly reminding myself that I am not these things. even just when something happens, like let’s say I got, I don’t have a car up here in New York, but let’s say I got a $500 parking ticket today. Damn. I can. Yeah, I know. It’s no joke out here. Maybe Zohran will fix that, you know? If I got a $500 parking ticket, I feel like I could react to that with so much more non-attachment that I could.
five years ago, you know, because at this point I’m not, I’m not as attached to the money in my bank account. I’m still a little bit attached to it because we have to, to like live well in the world. Like our society runs on, we live in a capitalistic society, you know, so you’re going to have to have some relationship with money. You can’t just give away all your money and expect to be able to pay rent next month unless you become a monk or something.
It’s always an option. It’s always an option. I that I think about it all the time. Not that expensive. Once a month, I’m like, should I become a monk? Every full moon, I’m like, maybe I’ll become a monk. But I really don’t think that’s my purpose. it’s just good for branding. Yeah, right. I was a monk for five years and now I do seminars. My Instagram would really blow up if I became a monk, you know? Yeah, it’s like the chiropractors becoming doctors.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (37:05.564)
Yeah. And then giving health advice. Right. Yeah. Same deal. Yeah. But wouldn’t there are a lot of monks these days that are active on social media. I don’t know how that works. And they’ll blow up. There’s a lot of like hot young monks out there. It’s like, you really sediment? What do you like today? It’s like, I think the non-attachment in the modern world really just comes from we’re less reactive.
You know, things happen to us, things happen to all of us that are so easy to be wound up and upset about. But how can we just navigate that with a little bit less drama really? Because- do we do that?
We cultivate this state of non-attachment and it’s just practice. It’s every time. And one of my teachers would tell me, never waste a good suffering because everything that happens to us that is negative or uncomfortable is just another opportunity to practice. So like if you showed up to this podcast and your mics weren’t working, that’s a good opportunity to practice non-attachment because really you’re just suffering because you had an expectation and an attachment to come in here and have these perfectly functioning microphones.
But what happens when our expectations don’t go as expected? We suffer.
if we can show up with non-attachment to what happens, we can show up with gratitude anyway. It’s like, yeah, these microphones aren’t working, but I still have a body. I still have lungs that breathe. Even if you forgot to press record on this podcast and we lost all of this, at least we got to get to know each other. It is recording. There’s always something to have gratitude over.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (38:51.998)
even when things are going wrong. So it’s much easier to feel sorry about ourselves and to feel down on our luck than it is to feel grateful and blessed. But that’s really just the decision of non-attachment. you have a framework to help somebody, help one of our listeners begin to cultivate non-attachment?
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (39:15.006)
Sit, sit in meditation.
And that sounds like super oversimplified, but I really think taking the time to actually digest our lives through meditation is what gives us the awareness to then move forward in our lives with a non-attached mind and with an equanimous mind. And when you sit and meditate,
even just little things in our meditation, sometimes I sit and meditate and realize I’m attached to my meditation going a certain way. And so that’s an opportunity to practice non-attachment. It’s like, I sat in meditation for two hours a month ago, I was in this training and nothing profound happened.
No big insights, nothing. But that was a big insight within itself. Like that was such a good opportunity to not be attached to like, two hours of meditation is not gonna, what if it doesn’t change anything? What then? Am I gonna quit meditation? No, I’m gonna practice tomorrow. So I don’t know, there’s no easy answers to these things because people have been trying to figure this out for so long. That’s why they wrote about it in the sacred texts. And that’s why people still go to therapy about it today. So.
All I can say is, sit and meditate, go to therapy, journal, slow down a little bit. And all of that helps. Yeah. For the busy mind, meditation seems impossible. And I’ve heard so many responses from people when I’ve suggested meditation or explained how useful meditation has been in my life to say, I can’t meditate. I think too much.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (41:05.268)
What are your thoughts? My thoughts are that that is precisely the reason you would meditate. You know, so that’s that’s like saying, you know, to use that example of like that’s like saying I’m I’m too weak. I can’t go to the gym. It’s like saying I’m too flexible. I can’t do yoga. My mind is too active. I can’t meditate. My teeth are too dirty. I can’t brush my teeth. You know, there’s no point. But that’s that’s why we meditate is to give ourselves a chance to actually work with the overactive mind.
It’s not going to be easy to sit in meditation if we have an overactive mind, but this is also why we need to have an object of meditation because meditation is concentration. And so we need to give ourselves something to concentrate on to actually flex that muscle. You know, just like when you go to the gym, you need, you need dumbbells in your hands to actually train your muscles. You know, you need an object of meditation to actually train your mind, to be able to redirect your attention. So
Don’t just sit and toil in your thoughts if you have an overactive mind, because chances are that’s not going to be very productive. It’s good to sit and observe your thoughts and see what’s going on in that big old head, you know? We all suffer because our brains are too big, you know? We’ve got these big old brains. It’s not the size of the brain, it’s the wrinkles, apparently. Yeah, we’ve got too many ridges in our brains. We could all just be a little bit more smooth. I have an orange cat, if you all know orange cats are.
My orange cat has a smooth brain and I don’t think he suffers at all.
Give yourself something to direct your awareness back to so your breath is like an easy one. A mantra, if that works for you, like just chanting a mantra like om or so hum. know, so hum just means I am that and that just refers to universal consciousness. So just so hum, so hum, so hum, or just keep bringing your awareness back to your breath. And
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (43:08.477)
The more we do that, we’re actually training the muscle within our mind to guide our awareness back to something other than the overactive mind itself. practice. Like just like if you’re so tight in your body, it’s not going to be easy when you first come to yoga, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t practice. Or if you’ve never played piano before, that first piano lesson might be really hard and frustrating.
but stick with it, you’ll learn one chord at a time until you can play a song. If you’ve never spoken French and you go to take your French lesson with your tutor, it’s gonna be hard and you might wanna quit because it’s a real uphill battle, but stay with it, develop a vocabulary and then you’ll learn how to conjugate verbs and then all of a sudden, you’re speaking sentences. So all I can say is that meditation is really hard at first and it’s still hard for me.
But after years of practice, you really do get to see the benefit and it starts to become much easier and there’s less resistance that the mind has toward actually redirecting its awareness to the present moment. Yeah, what have been some benefits in your life?
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (44:19.827)
think a more regulated nervous system, I like to meditate at night because it calms me down and it places me in this kind parasympathetic nervous system state and I can just sleep better. I sleep better if I meditate right before and actually to be honest with you, that’s what helped me quit weed. You know, I would smoke weed every day for a really long time and what helped me because and you know at the beginning of quitting weed, you know, it can be a little bit hard to
to get to sleep for some people. So that is the tool that really helped me is starting to meditate right before bed. And I don’t time my meditations. I’m not tied to anything. Sometimes I meditate for 10 minutes. Sometimes it’s up to 30, 35, 40 minutes. But that’s really how I was able to cultivate this kind of state of mind and state of body where I felt calm enough to fall asleep with no worries.
think it’s also just continuing to change my relationship with myself. As I mentioned, I’m just more non-attached these days. I feel myself slowly becoming less and less reactive and it’s a very slow gradual process. I’m still very much working on these things. And I really do think it’s changing my relationships. I think I’m becoming a better friend. I think I’m becoming more of a generous person over time where I used to have a lot of money insecurity, a lot of scarcity with that. like,
you know, it’s very hard for me to like spend money on myself or others, but now it’s, it’s becoming a lot easier for me to do that, which feels good. Um, and I think, you know, I’m single now, just saying, but you know, I think when I get into my next relationship, I think my meditation practice will really help me be a good partner and hold down a good relationship and, um, really water that relationship.
One of my meditation teachers, shout out to Yogi Alex, he says, meditate when you’re falling in love, not when you’re falling out of love looking for a solution. It’s kind of like be in therapy when things are good, not just when things go to shit. Because sitting in meditation before you get into that challenging period of life is what’s going to prepare you to do it.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (46:40.424)
You don’t want to just start drinking water when you’re already dehydrated. It’s like, no, wake up and drink your water with your sea salt and lime in it or lemon or whatever. So that you don’t get to that point where you’re dehydrated in the first place. So it really changes everything over time. But I’m really just starting to see the fruits of that. I think it’s really going to come over the course of decades, really.
That seems daunting for somebody, a listener that hasn’t really gone into meditation hearing. It’s really hard. And after 10 years, I’m only just getting started. So how does somebody, you know, how does a listener stay motivated? You know, you really have to want it, I think. Want what? Patentment. I think you really have to believe in and just trust it and surrender to it.
Trust and surrender to what? do you mean? So the practice or belief that the practice is going to have a positive impact on your life. And really it’s a trust and a surrender to yourself and to your true self. Because like I believe that our true self, which is our consciousness, really wants us to do things like sit in meditation. And you know, we live in the world, so we can’t just sit in meditation.
Our yoga practice should extend out into the world in terms of being a good person, being generous, know, not being selfish, and trying to act for the benefit of all other beings.
But our true self can really only be witnessed when we actually slow down and give the waters a chance to calm down. It’s like meditation is the practice that clears the clouds out of the sky so that we can actually see the sun. Meditation is the practice that actually calms and stills the lake of our mind so we can actually see under the surface of the water to what’s actually underneath. But I think we really, you really just have to believe and have to
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (48:51.644)
trust that that’s going to take you there. So that’s why for 10 years of meditating.
I really have never been so consistent in daily meditation. I’ve had many periods where I meditated for a week straight, two weeks straight, three weeks straight, but there always came times where I’d miss a day, miss two days, miss three days. know, I’m traveling, I’m too busy.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (49:18.612)
But I think more than ever, I really believe and I trust in the practice of meditation, which is actually like, all right, dude, like no more excuses, no bullshit. Like you have to sit in meditation every day, partially because I teach this stuff. So I have to actually practice what I preach, but also because I genuinely believe in it. And I think that it’s really the only way for me to live the life that I want to live. Have you ever experienced an ego death?
No. Yeah, I don’t think so. I I don’t know, maybe if I did like some ayahuasca or something.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (50:01.745)
But I don’t know, the way I see it, I don’t really need my ego to die. just need my ego to chill out a little bit, you know? And really, I think when we talk about ego death, what we’re actually talking about is not the death of the ego itself, because the ego is part of the mind. Like in yoga philosophy, the mind is divided into three components, which is manas, buddhi, and ahamkara. And manas is like the monkey mind, the puppy mind, know? Ooh, squirrel, you know?
It just receives information from the senses and like reacts to it immediately. cookies. Budhi is the more discriminative intellect of the mind. So you could call it like the higher mind, the mind that kind of like observes the monkey mind. And then we have the ahamkara, which is the ego or literally the eye maker where the ego is formed. And so this is
just simply a layer of the mind. So we can’t actually kill it because then like our whole personality would be killed. But what we do want to kill is our identification with the ego. So I don’t know if I’ve experienced an ego death. Like I very much do still identify as my body and mind if I’m just being honest and candid. And I don’t think that has ever not existed. But I will say like some days where I get really deep into my meditation practice.
I do feel some of those layers fall away and I do start to see my thoughts as things that are outside of my true self. So I don’t know. It’s a constant practice. We’ll see. to me. Talk to me in like 40 years. Maybe when you’ve got, when you’re looking after the animals, talk to me in like 17 lifetimes. We’re going slow, slow and steady. So if a listener was starting day one of yoga,
versus one year of yoga, what’s the general timeline of growth? What will you usually experience between that first day and first year? You know, it’s different for everybody. I think that’s a hard question to answer because, you know, some people take very naturally to yoga. For some people, it takes more time to really settle into the rhythms of a practice and to feel their body change and to feel the mind change. So I think it depends.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (52:19.907)
but it gets easier to show up, you know? Just like, it takes time to form a habit. So the more you show up, the more you’ll be inclined to show up, I think. Yeah. It’s like a boulder rolling down a hill. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. So why do you think yoga’s survived while all of these other ancient systems may have disappeared? Because I think humans have always been curious about the search for the self.
where can see that. And yeah, this is like not just in yoga. This is like so many forms of spirituality. But I think yoga is really interesting in that it gives us really tangible practices that we can use on that path of the search for the self.
And I think the way that it’s naturally evolved into a more physical practice has kept it super relevant. So that’s another reason why I’m like kind of okay with the fact that yoga has become this like physical workout, even though we know it’s not just this physical workout is because it’s kept it super relevant. And I think it’s brought a lot of people to the mat. And I think the more people that come and do these workout yoga classes, the more people that will eventually maybe develop a meditation practice. So,
I think that’s totally a reason for its relevance and like keeping it alive. Yeah. Well, if I think back to my journey into this space, it started off with a myotherapist.
working my body because there was a lot of like pain in my neck and shoulders and back, et cetera. And then he suggested doing yin yoga. And then I did yin yoga. And then I did yin yoga for a number of years. I also actually know going back to the start, I...
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (54:14.309)
started meditating because I was reading articles about the things that CEOs do. Top things, five things CEOs would do. I’m, you know, 20 years old. The most productive thing can do is nothing. Meditation. And I kept seeing it come up and I thought, hmm, this is interesting. And then, um, I,
a receptionist at my internship when I was studying put me on the headspace and I sat on headspace and that was it. And then the meditation got into the yin, got into vinyasa after a breakup, just by chance. I was like super depressed and it was the first time doing vinyasa was the first time where I had a clear head in three months.
after this breakup, it was just messy. I thought, wow, that’s weird. I didn’t expect that. And then that just, by the moment I felt that clear headedness and this runner’s high that I’ve never really felt before because I didn’t like to run. So I never really got that runner’s high. But the combination of the clear headedness 30, 40 minutes into this class after being like really down and depressed and sad, and then the runner’s high afterwards for an hour just got me hooked. And then that.
led into doing like an hour a day of meditation for 60 days during COVID as like a little challenge. And then that led into a Vipassana. And then now it’s just deeply entrenched into my life. But it all started from top five things a CEO can do. I have some things to say about that. I also want to hear it. So you did a 10 day Vipassana sit? A couple of years ago, yeah. I want to hear about that experience.
It’s so interesting how like, yeah, meditation has almost been colonized to the point where it’s used as a hack to like get more out of our minds to be more productive. Like the whole point of meditation is to free us from those systems in the first place. So it’s interesting how meditation is almost like spoken about in those contexts as like a productivity tool.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (56:33.14)
Well, there’s a lot of science behind it now. There’s a lot of brain MRI scans that have shown the benefits that meditation have in a bunch of different biomarkers of health. So I think that was the angle that I started going. That’s how I got into it because I was like, I’m studying engineering. I’m a scientist. I don’t believe in any of this esoteric bullshit. But then now there’s all these studies coming out that I have to, now I have to try it. I tried it and then it...
all the esoteric things that you can’t really put into words started to happen to me. Right. I was like, fuck. We’re cooked now. Whether you like it or not. we’re in it now. So that’s how I think that’s where it’s come from because the West especially is very scientifically driven and the East is very.
a lot of these are Eastern philosophies, right? And they come from more deeper human wisdom that hasn’t really been proven, but has been proven over repeating successes over thousands of years. Like the fact that the, what is it? The Yoga Sutra has survived in itself is a testament to
the fact that it’s successful because if it wasn’t successful in some way, it would have died off. It wouldn’t have been repeated. It wouldn’t have been valuable enough for people to memorize 173 sutras. Is that 173? 196. 196 sutras. That’s a lot of work. And if it doesn’t work, why would you waste your time? just go and see. Yeah. And you know, what’s, what’s actually funny about it though, is that
a big reason why the yoga sutras survived. There was a big period of time and of course this like varies depending on which historians you might inquire with but there was a period of hundreds and hundreds of years where the yoga sutras basically disappeared and no one was using them or referencing them at all. But what did it is that the yoga sutras are one of the only sacred texts of yoga that include the word asana in it. And asana means posture, know. So,
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (58:48.412)
And asana now in the modern world we call our asana practice like our practice like our vinyasa practice or our yanyoka like all the poses. But basically like 200 years ago some teachers they kind of saw that the word asana was included in the yoga sutras and it’s only used once. Yoga Sutra 2.46 which says stirram sukham asana. The posture is firm yet easeful.
That’s all it means. But people saw that the word asana was used and they like brought the yoga sutras out of the dead and then like used it to formulate and like, you know, be the backbone for these more modern yoga practices. So it’s interesting and that goes to show how important the physical yoga practice has been to maintain some of this more sacred ancient wisdom. But that’s kind of a tangent. I do want to ask you about your Vipassana meditation set.
And cause those are intense. Like, I don’t know if you’ve talked about that on the show, but for those who don’t know, it’s like 10 days meditating for like 12 hours a day. I haven’t done Vipassana, but I’ve done basically the same thing in a different lineage. so like, did you have any main insights from doing that? Yeah. Then I have ADHD. I thought after 10 days of no inputs, my brain would have shut up. Just didn’t never did. That was, that was fascinating.
cause I had just four things, four or five, six things rolling around in my head, even after 10 days. Like this, this can’t be, this can’t be an inputs thing anymore. You’re like, maybe I’m the problem. I think I’m the problem, but it’s not a problem. It’s just, it’s just a different way of my brain working, which gave me some freedom to,
approach the way I approach life a bit differently because it’s bit clearer now. That was good. And then it was just very hard. It was like a marathon. It felt like when I trained for a marathon, but just for my mind. Yes. But the same amount of discomfort of like, oh, fuck, here we go again. The dudes ringing the bell at 4.30 in the morning. I’m like. It’s like the same thing as walking up to the start line at 5 a.m. for a marathon. It’s horrible.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:01:09.42)
But great. And then the other big thing was I in that moment, I realized I thought I would have, you know, these expectations of how calm and peaceful and enlightened I would become. I wouldn’t be enlightened, but I would just like find these like beautiful states of bliss and blah, blah, blah. What I realized was I am an extremely extroverted person because I felt for the 10 days just a heavy
cloudiness over my body.
that instantly went away the moment I started to talk to people. Even if I wasn’t talking about anything of value, just chatting to the people from the course, but it went like that. And I turned into like a bundle of energy. And I was like, wow, that’s really interesting. Because you’d never be exposed to a situation like that where there’s a stark like switch up. So I learned a lot about that. And then I realized how careful I need to be with the people I spend my time with because I draw.
all that energy into me and then I amplify it. Yeah. Nice. That was cool. And I definitely hadn’t experienced where there’s this thing and I will do a full episode on this, a solo episode on this at some point soon, but there’s this thing called the, shit, I forget what it’s called. But basically it was the, some of the lines of the meditation of strong determination. And it was all good and well.
until about day three, everything was fine. We’re just focusing on the little area between our nostril and the breath of that little spot. And then we get into that was that was the Anapanam meditation, just to prepare for the Vipassana meditation, which is scanning the body back up and down and checking for little pains and stuff like that. But scanning, constantly scanning. And
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:03:12.471)
twice a day or maybe once a day, it’s been a while, we would sit for one hour with the intention to not move. You know about this? And that was really, really hard. My back was killing me. Everything was killing me. But I got to a point and it was a really interesting experience where I was in so much pain that
And I couldn’t, I didn’t want to move. So I’m like, what are my options? And I’m like, what if I just get so curious about this pain, the sense and like, what if it isn’t pain? What if it’s just a sensation? And I got, it was weird. I got so deep into the physical sensation of pain that I completely lost. I think I had a genuine ego death. Like I lost my
sense of my body completely. And I was just this like ball. It felt like this ball of energy. Yes. That was cool. It was really cool. Very strange. It’s beautiful. Very strange. I don’t know what to do with that information, but I guess I’ll just go to work tomorrow. And then one other thing that was really fascinating was I was so sensitive and I’ve never felt this before and I’ve never felt it again. But the unwinding of
all of your inputs to the point to where you’re just sitting, eating and walking and sleeping basically nothing else. I got so sensitive to what was coming into my body and like so attuned with my body that you know how you can hear you can know the location of things around you by the delay between the left and the right ear of like when the sound hits each. That’s how it happens. So your brain picks up on those like minuscule
time delays of where the sound’s coming from and then it can like map out where that thing is in space. Now, I could hear that. I could hear the time delay. I was that sensitive. I was like, what the fuck is this? I remember sitting there and the teacher was speaking and I could like hear the two lift like boom boom boom boom. And I could hear them like going into the ears at different like.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:05:38.898)
0.1 of a millisecond different, but because I was so sensitive and I was sitting for so long, I heard it and I could, noticed it. I like, that is insane. I don’t know what to do with that information again, but that was some of the key things. So fascinating experience. Very difficult. And I want to do another one, but now I know how difficult it is. I’m like really like, ugh.
want to do this again, but I will do it again. I just have to get over that. The first one’s easier because it’s, you’re a bit naive to what you’re about to get into. The second one, you really know what you’re about to get into. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing. That’s so interesting. And yeah, there is this and like we go back to one of those niyamas, which is tapas or discipline, you know, like there is totally an element of discipline to these things.
And there’s a reason why people go do these Vipassana retreats is to really force and discipline yourself into this, these deep states of meditation. It’s the same reason why people fast. It’s the same reason, you know, like kind of pushing ourselves to these limits, so to speak, because an interesting concept when it comes to meditation, which should be like easeful and peaceful, you know, but clearly like sitting for that long gave you
some sort of experience or insight that you wouldn’t have just from sitting for 10 minutes a day. Yeah. And yeah, that does sound like some sort of a ego death or however you want to articulate that. It’s happened a few times. You know, it’s realizing that I am not the pain in my body. Like that is just my nervous system sending pain signals to my brain, but I am not my brain either. So like, what am I? Like I actually just saw a, um, like an interview with a legendary runner.
And he was saying like, I actually, it’s so funny. get so, I love watching like ultra running documentaries. This is like the most random thing. I don’t run. I don’t like running. My body hurts when I run. I do other stuff, but I love, I’m so fascinated by ultra runners because I do think it’s like a marathon. I do think like sitting in meditation for a long period of time is like, like these ultra runners, whether they know it or not, they are highly spiritual to be able to like sit in that pain and just keep going.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:08:03.213)
I’m fascinated, but was listening to this one interview and this runner was like, when you experience pain, go deeper into that pain. if you’re running, don’t try to distract yourself. Don’t try to like turn up the music in your earbuds. Don’t try to think about anything else. Don’t try to go somewhere else. Go deeper inside of that. And that’s where you’re going to find something else. That’s exactly what happened. So I noticed that there was something beyond it. So I was like,
And this is going to sound very strange and off left field for anyone listening that doesn’t really understand or is into this sort of stuff.
I got to this point where I’m like, I’m in so much pain that I have no choice but to continue to like explore the pain. And then after a while, just, something just like snapped and I like hit, I like jumped over a little threshold and then the pain kind of was still there, but it didn’t matter. And then I was in this like, you know, eyes closed and I just felt this like,
I felt like a ball, like I was there, but I wasn’t there. And then it was over. And the same thing can happen sometimes with people when they meditate, like with their minds, like experiencing so much mental, I guess pain you could call it, like so much mental chatter, so much going on in the mind, and then you sit for long enough and then the mind just becomes quiet. Yeah. It’s a good place to...
try and get to every meditation. So I like to sit until I get to that point. Because there is a moment in time where you feel it and you’re like, OK, there we are. And then get up and go about my day. And it usually takes something like, it doesn’t take that long, maybe 20 minutes, 15, 20 minutes. And to some people, that’s a long time. But I know it’s going to happen. Because it happens so many times.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:10:11.222)
Yes. Over and over again. It’s like, then just. Yeah. Beautiful. So wrapping up, want to basically get one to two sentences from you of a few questions on the philosophy of life. So.
Tell me about a moment where your life changed in a flash.
You can elaborate by the way. cooked it. Yeah, I’ve been messing with this mic a little bit too much. It’s only at the start to not mess with the mic and I’ve like messing with the mic every 10 seconds. That’s a metaphor for my overactive mind. So my life has changed. I don’t know about in a flash, but there’s been some pivotal moments. Number one was when my mom told me to meditate and I listened and
That was in a point of life where I was a pretty cynical person. I was pretty young and I certainly didn’t believe in God and I didn’t believe in very much as it came to spiritual life. But meditation showed me that there was something else there even if I didn’t know how to articulate it. And that made me feel something.
Another pivotal moment is just meeting like my spiritual teachers. So I have lots of great teachers. You know, I come up here to New York City a lot to study with my Katona yoga teacher, Abby Galvin over at the studio and I love her to death. Like she’s made a huge impact on my life, but I have, I have other teachers that are more like my spiritual teachers and shout out to, to surge and Gloria and, some others, you know, like they really showed me what it means to be on the spiritual path and
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:11:55.485)
Like they’re such real humans, like they are not these like enlightened beings that float around. Like they are such real beings that are just really established in this work. And so getting to witness them and see myself in them, cause there, I basically view them as like me just, you know, 15, 20 further years down the path. And, and I’m just so grateful to get to like walk there in their, in their footsteps, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that’s all I got for now. What views do you have that would make people either scratch their head or get angry?
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:12:37.379)
Man.
Nothing really comes to mind, although I do enjoy a little bit of controversy, you know?
I don’t think I have too many crazy views. I tend to be a little bit of an anarchist in my views, like fuck the system type person. But at the same time, I try not to let things like that anger me too much because I’ve had stages of my life before where I got just so mad and riled up about any sort of...
world news going on because I had so much opinions about it, but that really just like, didn’t help me and it didn’t help the world around me for me to get so wound up about that stuff. So I don’t know. Like I have, I have opinions about maybe some ways that some yoga poses should be done, but so does everybody. I don’t know. I’m just a chill guy. I’m just a guy, you know, just a boy. I’m just a boy. Well, it’s one of the biggest things over the last two years you’ve changed your mind on.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:13:45.171)
feel like I’m constantly changing my mind.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:13:52.797)
think like politics is one thing, like even though my stance politically hasn’t really changed, like my temper is a lot different and just kind of like accepting kind of the way the world is and just doing what I can, which is first trying to fix my mind. Like it’s a mistake of mine to try to fix the world if my mind isn’t even where it needs to be. So like if I have all these opinions about how the world should be, but I can’t even act right in my own relationships and friendships.
then what am I even doing? And my relationship with myself, then what am I even doing? So that’s a major shift is like, of course, like do what I gotta do, like vote and have certain conversations and, you know, be a good community member, but also just like really try to fix yourself and your relationships before you try to fix the world. Get your house right. Yeah. Clean your own house. You know, I really believe if someone claims they’re spiritual and you go over there, their house is a complete mess.
Like something’s up. And my house gets messy sometimes, you know? But you always want to clean it up. You always want to get yourself right before you go out into the world. Yeah, for sure. shit, I lost my track. Where was I going?
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:15:11.03)
So many fun questions. I’m to pick a couple. Just leave them like that. This is literally, this is such a metaphor for my mind. Like I live in an overactive mind, like anybody else, like just because I teach yoga and meditation and pranayama and all this stuff, like it doesn’t mean I have anything else figured out. I just, I just know the tools really well. like to apply the tools. Yeah.
It’s fine. The mic’s not going in. I mean, I try to apply the tools, but yeah, me messing with this mic every three seconds is just a metaphor for like my mind. Like I need something to do. I need something to do, but that’s why I need to sit my ass. Clearly I have not meditated today. When did you realize that you had control over the outcome of your life? I think I’m just still realizing that more and more every day. You know, I definitely think that earlier in life, I used to have much more of a victim mentality. Like,
even just something like getting stuck at red lights, like why me? Like why is this happening to me? Or like, you know, sometimes you walk up to the subway platform and the train is just pulling up right there for you, like it’s your personal valet. And then sometimes you pull up to the train station, it’s like the next L train is in 25 minutes and you’re like, does God hate me? But I think I’m just constantly realizing that I’m not a victim at all.
And like regardless of how many privileges we do or don’t have, like none of us are the victim. Like we are in the circumstances that we’re in and all we can do is place ourselves in those circumstances the best way that we can. And so we are never in charge of our circumstances and yoga does not try to solve the problem of our circumstances, but yoga does seek to solve the obstacle of our mind because there’s two forms of suffering. Like I totally acknowledge that.
A lot of people experience suffering because of their external circumstances. We’re all born into different families, different wealth, all those sorts of things. But then we all also experience suffering that comes from inside of our minds. And so yoga has illuminated to me that we have tools to actually address the suffering that comes from the crevices of our minds. Nice. It’s a good place to wrap up. So is there anything you’re excited about at the moment that you’d like to let our listeners in on?
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:17:27.716)
I’m excited about life. I’m excited to be honest. I’m excited about God. You know, I just feel a relationship with some sort of higher thing that that’s exciting to me because that hasn’t always been the case. And I feel really grateful and blessed and I feel excited about everything. I mean, I have a bunch of retreats coming up next year. I’m always putting together new trainings and stuff. So I don’t know when this comes out, but I have an online yoga sutras course in January.
It’s online Tuesday and Thursday evenings, Eastern Standard Time, but it’s also pre-recorded. Some people can join that. I’m really excited about that. And I’m doing a lot of traveling and teaching these days. And so that just has me really excited and it has me really tired, but feeling really blessed. And I’m also just really excited to keep this little meditation train going. You know, I’ve meditated every day for like, I want to say like a month and a half, which isn’t a long time, but.
It’s only been a couple times in my life that I’ve meditated every day, this consistently. And so I’m really, I was actually just talking to a really good friend recently and we’re talking about how we’re just committed to meditating every day until we die. Like no excuses, straight up. Like there’s no reason. So I’m really excited just to see where that goes because I really just believe in and trust that process. So yeah, I’m excited about everything and I’m excited that you invited me onto the show. Good conversation, good dude.
Shout out Rachel if you’re listening. I wonder if Rachel listens. We’ll how good of a friend she is. Rachel, if you’re a good friend, you listen to this podcast with your two friends. So yeah, thank you for having me. Of course, man. And what are you excited about? Me? I don’t know. Life’s pretty good. I’m just excited about everything I’m doing. All right. is great. Lots of good guests coming on. Healthy, happy, having fun. New York’s fun.
Yeah, that’s really good. But we’re not attached from having fun. So if we don’t have fun, we can still be happy. Well, I mean, it’s definitely not that fun at times, but I’m still having net fun. Yeah, it’s about the net fun. Yeah, yeah. And I don’t know, maybe the net fun comes from the fact that I’m just vibing. Yeah.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:19:41.664)
Everything’s a vibe. Even when your train’s 25 minutes late, there’s a way to make it a vibe. Yeah. So harassing people in the train. Yeah. See how big of a fight you can get. Yeah. Within 25 minutes. where can people find you if they’re interested in learning more about you? My Instagram is BenKalra. First name, last name. B-E-N-K-A-L-R-A. My website is ben-kalra.com.
And yeah, if you want to sign up for my email list, go for it. I barely sent out any emails because I’m really bad at writing newsletters, but my goal is to do more long form writing and maybe a little bit less posting on social media to make that kind of transition. So yeah, you can always send me an email, bencolbrit yoga at gmail.com. Cool. Yeah. Nice. And my last one for you is why do think we’re here on earth? What’s the meaning of all of this? You know, I got to just say to, to realize the true unchanging nature of the self.
Like on your ID. Yes, exactly. Realize that you are consciousness. And then not just that, it’s not just to realize that and then ascend into outer space or whatever. It’s to realize that and then live really well in the world, in our bodies as a vessel for this consciousness.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:21:03.834)
And if you enjoyed this episode, please go to YouTube. So that one time with Adam Metwally, click subscribe and I’ll see you next week. Fuck you.
