Kevin Champeny on Defiance, Art, and Building a Creative Life
Defiance can fuel your biggest breakthroughs.
I just sat down with Kevin Champeny.
He’s a mosaic sculptor whose intricate resin “pixel” artworks are collected by Drake, Mike Tyson, and even the Saudi royal family.
In this episode you’ll learn
How defiance can outpower doubt and rejection
Why calculated risks matter in career transitions
How social media can scale even niche creative work
We dive into the details later in the conversation.
Timestamps
00:00 The Artistic Journey Begins
11:05 Navigating Career Transitions
27:57 Finding a Unique Artistic Niche
37:08 The Power of Partnership
39:46 High-Profile Commissions
44:45 The Mike Tyson Experience
47:58 Philosophical Reflections on Right and Wrong
53:21 Personal Growth and Emotional Awareness
58:37 The Impact of Kindness and Mentorship
1:02:05 Defiance and the Pursuit of Dreams
1:07:46 Creative Projects and Future Aspirations
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Here’s the full transcript:
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (00:00.079)
When it comes to shape and space, I don’t see things the same way. I started drawing before I could talk. Kevin Champany. The artwork is very distinct. The style of art that combined my love of drawing, painting, sculpting, design. With notable commissioned works from like Tyson, Saudi, Royal Family. Which is weird. I think that I’ve created things that no one else has, but yet I still am insecure about what I can create. You know, if you’re an artist, you’re allowed to be eccentric. You’re almost given a free ticket to. That’s a bad thing if you don’t have self-control.
What’s the most beautiful thing you’ve created? did a piece called Drake instant message me. He saw both of those pieces and he’s like. Welcome to that one time with Adam Metwally, the podcast bridging the gap between health, hustle and happiness. We’re at podcasts for a while in Chelsea, New York City, and I’m with Kevin Champagney. Over nine years ago, you leapt into a full time artistic career.
predominantly as a mosaic sculpture artist, working on extremely intricate mosaics with thousands of handcast pixels. They’re these little, what do call them? They’re just- Yeah, they’re little sculptures. Mini sculptures within the big sculpture. Correct. With notable commission works from Drake, Mark Tyson, the Saudi royal family, Burianes, and a lot more, with some of these works fetching hundreds of thousands, like, heard over $300,000 for one.
piece, which is a big jump from previous job in the air as an aerospace mechanic when you began. So I want to go back to the beginning because this is quite fascinating. Early on, did you always know you wanted to be an artist and what were the context of the early years that allow us to understand you today and how we got here? I mean, so if we go all the way back, I mean, we’re looking at someone who was drawing before they could speak.
And so I was a quiet kid in a quiet town in the middle of the country and with an obsession with puzzles, with jigsaw puzzles. And I could do them upside down, backwards, do them just by shape. So I don’t even need to see what the picture is and I can pretty much do it. I had a puzzle memorized when I was a kid. A puzzle memorized? Does that even mean, I’ve never heard someone say that word before.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (02:23.63)
To be able to do a puzzle so many times that just the box is open and I know exactly where the pieces are. And so they just go on the table in their location and then they start connecting as I find whatever piece comes out of it. Yeah. I was a weird child. So you had a photographic memory by the time. So sort of when it comes to shape, when it comes to shape and space, I test off the charts for that, which I just recently found out. do you test something like that?
If you’re ever tested for autism, have, they test you for a lot of different things. And one of them has to do with spatial relations and IQ tests. And they all sort of revolve around that memory and recall and all of that. And so you recently were like, maybe I’m autistic. Well, I mean, there were questions actually. I actually did an interview and the interviewer was like,
have you ever been tested for that? Because what you do is not normal. And I was like, I know it’s not normal, but I didn’t think it was abnormal. And so I was curious, because I’ve always wondered why do I do the stuff that I do? And especially with a lot in my past, how I was able to overcome and deal with a lot of things that happened to me. And so yeah, it was fascinating to do all of that. And sort of see where I...
fit on the spectrum. yeah, it was a curious thing. did you land? I’m on it. I’m right in there. Yeah. But it’s weird because the terminology is uncomfortable for me to say. And because I test on like genius level sides of it. And it’s a weird thing. just it sounds like a flex. it’s not. But it’s just strange because I never heard that growing up. I was just the weird kid. But to understand why, how weird I was.
and how I see things and there’s a delay even when I look at stuff. I’m looking at the negative space around it, the reflections, all of this. And then there’s, oh, that’s what that, it’s a chair. And so, because I’m just absorbing all this information all at once all the time and it just never ever stops. And- Is that exhausting? It is. And so I’m just constantly thinking and I’m constantly working on ideas and I’m planning projects out years ahead.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (04:47.586)
So, know, the fact that Damien Hirst has this 200 year plan is like laughable. It’s like I had a 200 year plan when I was 12, you know, because I just couldn’t shut my brain off. And so I don’t know, it’s, that’s how I grew up. I mean, that’s just how I saw things and where I was, it just didn’t fit. And so it wasn’t until I was in New York and started sort of the job search after college to be behind the scenes.
knowing that or learning that I could do things that other people couldn’t, or I could do it at speeds at which no one had ever seen before. And especially with sculpting and mold making and casting and just sort of being behind the scenes and knowing that I could just do it, but I didn’t have to answer for it. I didn’t have to be in front of it. which sort of, that’s how, what led me into the aerospace industry. I ended up working for someone several times, building things for them that were
so cost prohibitive to machine, but he knew that I could probably just sort of figure it out. And I did. so parts that would have cost him close to a quarter of a million dollars in machinery and design, I was able to do for like a $25 part. Just because it made sense to me. I was like, oh yeah, well if you do it this way and change that and, you know, figure out production by hand and so yeah. And once he started the aerospace company, he’s like, I need you on the team. All right.
I guess I’ll be a mechanic. so yeah. Didn’t study for this at all. No, I don’t fly well either. I don’t, I do not like planes. so why not go into the aerospace industry? Yeah, of course. And because my, my ear drums are scar tissue at this point because of all the hearing issues that I had growing up. And so, but I don’t see things the same way. I just assume everyone’s lying to me. it can’t be done. Okay. We’ll see.
We’ll see. They told me I couldn’t hear when I was younger, but I can. They told me I wouldn’t go to college, but I did. I wouldn’t get married because I was too weird, but I’ve been married for 25 years. So, you know, it’s like all these things that people said, no, you can’t do. was like, I’m doing it. It was just pure unadulterated defiance. And so being in a workspace is weird because while we can’t do this, well, have you tried? Have you tried this? And it’s like, well, I’m a professor. I’ve done this for years. Like, yeah, but I, you know,
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (07:11.01)
did you press that button? They’re like, no, try it. I mean, that’s how I learned how to do everything was just by trial and error. so, you know, again, the aerospace company that I was in was so strange. mean, imagine Fire Festival meets Tiger King. I didn’t even know what that analogy could possibly ever mean. it’s awful.
It’s awful in the most awful ways. As in the personalities. Yes. Right. I worked for the most insane people I’ve ever met and some of the smartest people that I’ve ever met. it was also probably on the spectrum in a different way. Most likely. Yeah. So everything good that gets done in the world is done by people who are autistic. Oh, has to be. I mean, either that or sociopaths. Yeah.
because you’re probably autistic in a different way. Exactly. Because especially if you’re a CEO, you have to do things that normal people wouldn’t do to allow a company to grow in certain ways. That takes a level of just out of the box thinking. Yeah. Or just cruelty, which sociopathic sort of deals with it’s like, well, I know a thousand people are going to lose their job, but the company matters. Not the thousand people. So it’s the train. It’s the trolley.
problem. Yeah. You know, and that’s, that’s what CEOs deal with. And so, yeah, they’re all crazy. And it’s same thing with politicians. You have to be. the trolley problem quickly. well, so you have a train coming down, you know, a track and it splits off. And so either you can send it right or left, but left has one person, right has like a hundred people. yeah. So I guess you can, or you could do it anyway. I think, I think the detailed part of that is the piece that
the important pieces, the train is going to kill a thousand people by default. Right. And you can make the choice to pull the lever. So it only kills one, but you have made the conscious choice to move it, to the one person. But you, your human choice has consequences, consequences, but it kills less people. But if you did nothing, it would kill more people, but you had no blood on your hands. Right. What would you pick? Man.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (09:19.886)
Depends on the person, I guess. Depends on who’s at the end. Yeah, well, okay. So you had unique quirks from day one. You fell into a bunch of different, know, fell into your career. How was your family’s support around your unique approaches to the world? Well, growing up, it was...
not as existent. I mean, they were very standoffish because it just didn’t make sense to them, which is fine. I did well in school and that’s all that mattered. As far as what I was gonna do after school, no help, no direction, no nothing. So I was pretty much on my own at that point. And I had a couple of people in my life that sort of helped sort of guide me, one being an art teacher actually. And then once I was...
So I met my wife 27 years ago and she’s been my biggest cheerleader and she grounds me and she was just so smart and grounded and practical, you know, in every way. And she’s a researcher. mean, she, you know, so that’s what she does. Crunch’s numbers, very good at it. So having that,
sort of that support saying, yes, this is your dream and your passion, but you have to be practical at the same time. And I think that was part of, well, I do have these skill sets, but I can use them in different ways. And I think that sort of kept me away from just diving into the art world because again, it was such an unknown, especially growing up in Wisconsin and then coming out to New York, know, the bastion of, you know.
millions of artists and painters and I was like, whatever. And so it was just too much. But I knew that I could do stuff. I knew that I could make things and fix things and build things. And so that was always supported. And then the change to the aerospace industry was just weird because it was such a departure from what I was doing. But I knew I was going to learn new skills and things that I was going to use on my next, you know,
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (11:30.974)
step or travel or whatever. And once I made the transition to art, was really it was about time. It really was. just everything was fitting into place and it just sort of made sense. Yeah, got it. Got it. So it’s a good point that I want to jump into juggling your art alongside a full time career and when to make the leap because you hear.
the conventional wisdom on like chase your dreams and just make it happen and fail. And there’s consequences to these things. And I feel like there’s a pragmatic approach. So I’m wondering what your thoughts are going from job to self-employed from clear engineering role to art commission based. It was a series of calculated risks.
And even taking the aerospace job was a calculated risk. It was a job, but it was a very good job. And it was a job that I knew if it failed, and there was a good chance that it could because of who I was working with. Did it fail? It did. Just.
Amazing. my gosh. And so I stepped out before things blew up and hopefully no like literally blew up. Really? Yeah. A building with yeah. And so they moved locations after I sort of stepped away. But yeah, they blew up a building. So I mean, they didn’t kill anyone, which I still don’t understand. This will be a movie someday. I assure you. But yeah, it was was it was crazy.
And so, but it was a calculated risk and allowed me to move to where I am now being on the island. And so we were going to have to move anyway, because we had children and the school system that we were in just didn’t make sense for us. And so we were at a point, it like, well, this is good timing and it’s something different. And these skillsets will allow me to do other things, which I’m not doing, which is kind of cool. It was when I met my business partner.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (13:41.166)
And so just redressing one of his planes, putting new graphics on it. And cause I had to figure that out too, you know, and he’s like, where’d you go to school to become an engineer? And I just laughed. I said, I’m not an engineer. I I’m a sculptor and it, it just didn’t make sense to him. And we found out that we were actually neighbors. So he lived one town over and he came to the studio, um, that I had in the basement.
because that’s how I would work. So when I came home or when the kids were in bed, I would go down and sculpt and make things. And, and so I had like three pieces that I’d been working on and no one had really seen them, just family and a few friends. And he’s walking through the studio and he’s picking things up and he’s like, you made this like, yeah, yeah, I made that. And he’s like, you should be doing this. This, this is something I’ve never seen before. You’re passionate about it. So if you ever want to make the leap,
you should do this. And so it was at a weird time in the company. was sort of the tail end. And I called him two weeks later and I said, I’m ready. Yeah. Yeah. And that was it. And again, it was one of those calculators. I knew that the company was failing and I was ready to sort of figure out how to get out. And I wanted to do something on my own.
you know, do something that was more me related. And he gave me the opportunity and we became business partners almost immediately and sort of restructured everything and just sort of jumped into it. So would you have done it yourself? Do you think ever? I would have that permission from somebody else. The permission certainly helped because I even now still have sort of the imposter syndrome. I still deal with some of that.
which is weird to think that I’ve created things that no one else has, but yet I still am insecure about what I can create. What do think that is? I don’t know. I’ve struggled with it for years because I think people have always told me no and that you won’t be able to. So on one hand you’ve got defiance and then on the same token you’ve got imposter syndrome. it’s terrible. it’s awful. It’s like a pendulum between the two. Constant.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (15:53.699)
And I think both motivate me because I’m basically trying to prove to myself, no, you’re wrong. You are better than that. You are okay. You are good. You know, you don’t have to be the best. You just have to be the best at what you do. And that’s sort of my sort of mentality of it. And this is a very big specific niche. Exactly. Very narrow niche. Which I didn’t realize how narrow it was. no one does it. And then I so.
As a test, was like, okay, because early on when we set up the company, like, well, what if other people start doing this? I said, okay. I said, let’s, let’s, let’s do the numbers on this. I said, so you have to get someone who can design, draw, paint, sculpt, mold, cast, build, woodwork, package and sell. So I’m that one person. You could get a dozen people to do it.
but that now increases your cost and complexity. And so I’ve worked for model companies, model making companies, and I’ve had them sort of estimate for my jobs and it’s absurd. Like, wow, no, I can’t pay a million dollars to build this. I just can’t do it. And because they have to have so many people involved, they have to have finishers because people specialize in finishing. Well, I learned it all. So I learned every aspect of it.
And there are molders and there are casters, are painters, there are finishers, you know? So all these are separate jobs. These are separate industries. And I just didn’t have time for that. So I was like, I’ll just do it myself. Even the frames that I build on, I build myself because they’re so bespoke and so unique that they’re part of the infrastructure of the whole piece. And priced out, there are tens of thousands of dollars to have built. Like, well, no, it doesn’t have to be that way. But...
everyone has overhead and this and that. so, okay, I’ll just build my own company. You know, it’s that whole waiting for your ship to come in. I just got tired of it and built my own ship, you know, and that’s, that’s what I’m on now is that ship. Yeah, no, that’s, that’s fascinating. I, what do you think about the idea of being very good at one specific domain or being a jack of all trades by the sound of what you’ve, you’ve done? I dream of being
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (18:14.607)
person who does one thing. Really? Like the blue dog guy from, I forget the name of the artist. He’s from New Orleans and he just paints blue dogs. It’s amazing. That’s all he’s done his entire career. And they get boring. I don’t know, but he’s amazingly wealthy and famous because of it. And that’s kind of cool. And he does blue dogs and big things, know, merchandises it and all of that. And that is cool. I wouldn’t mind being the
gummy bear guy. Exactly. Or the middle finger guy. I think that would be fun because again, there are so many ideas that I have that I’ve never taken anything to the nth degree. I got close and that’s what sort of formulated this whole process was taking an idea and beating the hell out of it. And even then I didn’t even take it to levels that I know I could, but I got to a level where it was just exhausting.
I was working a full-time job trying to make this work, you know, and take an idea and stretch it and pull it. And the first mosaic came out of that, which is kind of neat. I think being a jack of all trades is an advantage. I’m not reliant on as many people, but it does make it difficult when I have to ask for help because I know I can do it. Now it’s more like time, you know, and what is more valuable to me, you know, it’s
being known of making every single piece and all of that and having my hands on every aspect of it. It’s kind of nice because well, Jeff Koons doesn’t do that. You know, he doesn’t touch his own artwork. He can direct people amazingly well and that’s fascinating, but I’m just, not there. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Do you have a, like a vision to scale this into something or cause it sounds like it’s very going to be very difficult to, to, to scale this.
looking at the business of the art into something past you because you do everything and the price points are too high to bring in teams. Well, it depends. I mean, there are certain aspects of it that can be offloaded and there are parts of it that are so time intensive that I mean, the molding and casting part that I developed, I can teach someone I’m more than happy to. And so that would offload a tremendous amount of time. I mean, that’s some months and months of just labor every year.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (20:39.874)
just molding and casting. So being able just to design and create these and put them together. And even that there are certain parts of it that I’m actually teaching my son now how to do and how to see and how to sort of adjust things. So yeah, I think it’s definitely scalable. When the pieces are so large, when they get really big, then yeah, having people do certain aspects of it certainly would be.
easier than doing like small work, which again is all conceptualized in my head. So I don’t do maquettes or drawings or anything. It just starts to sort of pour out. And so that’s, I can’t explain that. You know, I can’t tell someone, yeah, just do 12 shades of red here. It’s a little much. In the, in the rapid fire, you spoke about not taking breaks. I’ve got a few questions in this and it’s, I think it goes down to the
work ethic, but also potentially just part of your personality. wonder, don’t you lead into that for people who didn’t listen to the rapid fire, how you work. It’s intense. I don’t take breaks and I take, you know, I’ll eat, you know, and I’ll stop. Now, because my life involves more people than myself, there are hard...
hard hard lines, hard dates that I have to hit that allow me to stop. If not for that, I would never stop unless I got exhausted or just fell asleep. And so, but it’s more than just that. It’s an intensity of working. And again, working behind the scenes for so long for so many companies, I worked for that company. With that level of intensity? That was my job. They hired me to do that. And so,
it was always very company focused. They need to put the best product out, otherwise I don’t have a job. And I was very nervous about losing my job. I don’t know why, but I always was. But I made sure that everything I did was for that company. Well, if I do the best job that I can, then it’ll be the best product possible. And I pushed people next to me and around me to do the same. And that caused a lot of friction.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (23:03.718)
and a lot of problems and it’s like, well, I just don’t feel like it. Well, fuck you then. I mean, that’s why you’re here. You’re here to work. And so, I mean, I think about it now and because we’re very, especially in the US, we’re so hyper focused on work and career and maybe too much so, but it is the system we’re in. And knowing that, and especially being in New York and taking full advantage of the fact that I don’t have to sleep, that I don’t have to stop.
You know, I had to take breaks at certain jobs because it was legally required and they would, they would pull me out. You can’t keep working. We will get in trouble. Like, I didn’t know that, you know, so, and then adjusting sort of my lifestyle accordingly. But yeah, I just, when I go into work, I open the door, lock it behind me and I work until I hit that lunch and then work again until I have to leave. And there’s nothing in between. It’s just constant because I just,
I know there’s more to do and there’s more that I want to do. And it’s not that I, I gotta get this done. I want to do it. I want to finish it so I can work on another piece. And cause I work on like seven or eight sculptures at once. And so I’m sculpting one and casting another, designing one. And so it’s very frenetic. And so it allows me not to get too hyper focused on one piece because then I get too deep into it. I can bounce around and go back and forth. So yeah, it’s a.
It’s a weird way to work, it’s allowed me to learn at a pace that I don’t think I could have designed any other way because most companies don’t even allow you to do it. Like working for a union would not be a possibility for me because of the pace that I work at. And so I’ve worked for non-union places because of that, because I couldn’t be hamstrung that way. Like you can’t tell me that I can’t do it because it’s not in my job title. It’s like, have to do it because it needs to get done. So I’m going to do it.
And so that’s why the aerospace industry was fascinating because we were a boutique company. So I was remodeling a kitchen while working on an electron scanning microscope while I was building an aircraft. So I’m doing all these different things because that’s what needed to be done. you, have you always had the ability to focus like that? Yeah. On everything you did or just very, very specific things?
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (25:26.804)
School-wise, work-wise, yeah. I mean, worked wild jobs growing up. You’re I’m going to do this, I’m locked into this one thing and that’s fine. So I’m the opposite. I find it so difficult to just, I hear what you’re saying. It doesn’t make sense. No, it makes sense. I hear it on over and over again when I listen or read autobiographies or...
you see people who are really highly functioning in whatever they’re doing. They have that same just locked in work ethic and it just go, go, go, go, Me, it doesn’t get going. For me, it’s just a system. And so if I’m packing vegetables in a frozen food factory in the middle of Wisconsin, it’s just a system. what means- You don’t get bored? I don’t even notice that because again,
my brain doesn’t stop. So once it becomes rote memorization, I don’t have to think about it. I can plan and do other things as I’m doing it and I can become more efficient at that. again, was another thing that I did when I worked was to become as efficient as possible so I could focus more on what I wanted to do. And some jobs allowed for it, some didn’t. And it’s...
even the most mundane thing, mowing lawns, you know, did that for a long time growing up and yeah, it just, didn’t matter. Whatever it was, that’s like, I knew it needed to be done and it’s all a system and it made sense to me all the little parts and bits of it. So that when I was done, I didn’t take it with me. I didn’t have to worry about it because my brain was already full of everything that I wanted to do. So all the pieces that I’m working on now, I’ve been designing and thinking about since I was a child. So it’s just,
sort of shifting, shifting what I’m doing during the day to get to that point. yeah, anything, gosh, you could ask me to do anything. If that’s my job, that’s what I’m gonna do. You mean to file papers? Sure, I’ll file papers. But you also don’t like being told what to do. Oh no, no. Well, especially if I can find a better way of doing it. Okay. And if what you’re asking me to do is just stupid, or in my head, what I would see as stupid or inefficient,
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (27:49.004)
I will fight against that because then you’re just wasting my time. Because again, it’s about the business, it’s about the job. So if your job is to do something, then do it to the best of your ability. Don’t ask me to do in a way that makes it less efficient or worse. That doesn’t make sense, but that’s what people do. again, because education is sort of the same way as that you teach to like a certain.
level and you always lose the lowest and the highest. And it’s just how most life works is that you have to keep things in a certain level to allow most people to succeed. But if you’re below that, you’re lost. And if you’re beyond that, then you’re just frustrated. So it’s trying to balance that out, I think. I’m just wondering if there’s a way to frame this for somebody listening, AKA myself, to focus better.
Like, it just sounds like it was an innate thing, because it’s been something I’ve been working on. And it’s come down to some techniques, like the Pomodoro timer has been useful, which is 25 minutes on, five minutes off. And I have to write down on a pen and pad what I’m doing in the one task and do it in that 25. And the moment I know my brain will go off. I have to come back. And my brain will go off.
Yeah, it’s, and there’s a million things going on in my head as well, but not in that form. Maybe it’s just silencing it then. How do you silence the shiny? And cause that’s what it is. That’s what your brain’s doing. It’s in mind does it constantly. Ooh, that’s shiny. Let’s go play with that. And, but I think that’s, that’s what it is. If you can’t focus, cause your brain’s like looking for something that it wants to do that it is interested in doing. And so I don’t know. I don’t know if they’re
our ways, because I’ve just sort of allowed it to be there in the background, you know, sort of in tandem as I’m working. Yeah. But you put in a little playpen and just have your fun over it. I’ll be with you in a second. When we play, we’re going to really play. So funny. That’s so funny. I like it. Yeah. So let’s let’s explore how you got to your niche niche niche niche.
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I hear it both. I don’t even know which one is right actually. Yeah, so let’s explore finding your niche. So, you know, artwork is very distinct. It’s intricate, thousands of tiny hand-cut pixels or mini sculptures within the sculptures. How did you get to the point where you developed that style and what were the experiments and the projects that sparked this? And when did you know that it would?
This was where you wanted to focus. Right. So the elevator speech is I wanted to create a style of art that combined my love of drawing, painting, sculpting, design into one cohesive and interactive piece. Something that you had to walk up to see what it’s made out of, walk back to see what the image is. And then the final piece being allowing the viewer to define it. I never define my work and I rarely talk about what they mean because I give it sort of an ambiguous.
title and tell you what it’s made out of and sort of let you run with it. So it’s, it’s the greatest expression of freedom of idea and speech wrapped up in one thing. And to come to that was, it took a while, because my interest, cause I started drawing before I could talk. And so that’s what I thought I would do. I was, I thought I’d be a designer or a graphic designer. And then
learned how to sculpt once I came to New York, sort of picked that up really quickly. And I was in a job where the sculpting stopped. AOL bought out Time Warner and shut down all their Warner Brothers stores. I used to sculpt Tweety Birds for like months at a time. That’s all I did, which is crazy. Cookie jars and snow globes and key chains. God. And so I had this stack of Tweety Bird heads of every size and shape. great.
Um, but once that stopped, was freelancing, but the next room over was mold and cast. And so was, I was like, Oh, I can do that. Like, Oh, you can. said, Oh yeah, absolutely. Just let me, let me go in there. And so it took a couple of days and sort of figured it out. And it’s like, this is really cool. And again, because all the chemicals and everything are based on formulas and all of this. And I was like, well, why does that make sense? This can be stretched and pushed and sped up.
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And so I figured out different methods and replacing entire teams that work there. shit. Yeah, it was was bad. Where the people in the company were scared. Like if I started doing stuff that they did, they’re like, shit, we’re all getting fired. the Kevin’s is going to take your job. And but it did happen in two departments. you know, it’s I get it. But yeah, efficiency. Yeah. And so I was I had these two little molds.
and they were fish molds and I started adding resin to them and ended up with like a bucket of fish and I like, oh, this is kind of neat. And I started gluing them together. I was like, oh, it’s like a school. I was like, oh, and then I had these images and that’s the idea that I beat to death. And so on the side, I was like, what can I do with all this? And I started making picture frames and vases and tchotchkes, magnets and pushpits, everything. So I figured out how to manufacture all these by hand.
did a couple shows here and there and just got so burnt out. The last piece I did was a self portrait with a fish staring straight out in grayscale. And it was just haunting and I still have it. It’s actually in the studio. And then I stopped. I stopped doing my own work for a year and just focused on what I was doing for the company and sort of figured out new methods and techniques and all that. And then
went back to it with an idea. I was like, wouldn’t it be interesting if, and then the, what remains piece came into mind and that’s the, it was a full color skull done in flowers and it was like four by five feet. It was huge. And it was all full color. And so, you know, I went from black and white one piece to full color with tens of thousands, you know, it’s just, it was crazy. Just that jump. And then I was like, this is some, this could be something.
And then I designed the two or three pieces that Richard, my business partner saw eventually in the studio. And that was it. That was sort of that trial and error. What can I do? How can I, because I couldn’t focus. And that was the only thing it’s like, I applied for grad school and was rejected because my portfolio was too diverse. I said, well, you don’t do one thing. DaVinci didn’t do one thing.
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You know, and it’s like, you can’t throw names out like that. know, it wasn’t arrogance. There was just more self-confidence. You know, this was the canon of art at this time. Why can’t it be now? Sort of that Renaissance man, that idea of being able to do all things and being expected to. And then going to school with artists that I’d sort of met along the way who only did one thing. And they only painted one thing one way, but they didn’t.
Like Picasso didn’t paint one thing. I mean, he learned the canons of photorealism, how to mix color. And it was only until then that he could break it down, that he could destroy the system. And you can’t break the system unless you know how it’s built. so that’s sort of what it was for me is how can I now combine all this? Because I’m not going to be able just to draw now that I know how to do this.
you know, and or sculpt or any of that. And so combining it is really sort of that that moment. Once I did that skull and that was I was like this, this my god, the ideas just sort of blew out from their paintings that I had ideas of now became these massive mosaic sculptures. so they just became more complex and more interesting. You did all of this after you moonlighted doing this. Oh, yeah, this is just, you know, when I had time.
Moonlighting. Anyway, you get what I mean. Moonlit. You moonlit doing this. Yeah, so I always had like a studio somewhere. whether I was doing art full time, I always made sure that I could afford to have studio space in New York. And that was budgeted into your job. You wouldn’t take a job. You wouldn’t take that full time job unless you could also afford to get that space. Right. So either a job or apartment.
or in the location. all the apartments, cause my wife and I have moved 11 times since we’ve been together. And each time there’s always had to be space. Like a second bedroom or a little basement. Yeah, something. Yeah. It’s always been the other person in the relationship is the art. If you talked to her about it, she’s like, oh yeah, the other woman. He’s a fish. Yeah, he’s a fish. And so he was, and when I had an apartment in Bronx actually.
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sculpted this huge bust, this bronze bust, and it was like in the living room. So the workspace was behind the living room, but there was this big green man there for a year that I was sculpting. So it was always part of it. Because I knew, I knew I’d always be tinkering, trying, making it, because that’s always what I wanted to do, but never knew how or didn’t have the right time or location or anything push, perhaps, to actually do it. Do you think you could have done this? So basically there’s two integral components to this.
becoming a full-time career for you. It was a business partner who gave you, somewhat gave you permission to make this, take the leap on this. How did you structure that with you? Like, I’m gonna fund this whole thing to get you off the ground, I’m pay you salary. Like, why was he your business partner and why did that matter? And the second part, just so I forget, was your wife giving you the permission to focus on this a lot. Yeah, because I was gonna focus on art anyway.
And I was getting to that point in my life that I knew I needed to either do it or just forget about it and just let it be a hobby. That was about 40. Yeah. Yeah. Probably around that time. Got it. Yeah. It’s early on. And so, cause we started, started a family. So we were married for like 13 years before we had children. So we were very focused on what we were doing and our own jobs and careers. And once the family started that, that changed sort of.
why and how and logistics. And so my business partner meeting him, it’s more about him and knowing what he could do and what he was capable of doing and companies that he had started and sold and he’s a career entrepreneur and his Rolodex of people that he knows is fascinating. And it was just very wide, very broad and
very integrated into all the aspects and areas that I never had access to. And so knowing that, and we got along really well. One aspect of being an artist for me, which is a lot different than many is my idea about being an artist. So you pay someone to do your taxes, to fix your car, you pay a dentist, a doctor.
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pay a bartender to do that, you’re gonna pay me to make beautiful things. And I’ve always had that idea, that mentality, this is my skill set, I will be paid for that. The whole starving artist thing was so offensive growing up. And the one thing that I loved the most is gonna be my downfall. And that’s what was pushed into my head from early on. yeah, you wanna do this? You’ll fail, because all artists fail, unless you’re dead.
You know, and it was always that and it’s like, you know, you only become famous after you die. I think that’ll be our like, and so that man, that was, that was a motivated, that was, that was a big F you like, I’ll show you exactly. I’ll show you. And, and so, and then with Richard, man, we just, we’ve never disagreed about anything and
I just, I had a good feeling about him just seeing how he worked and how he functioned with people and just sort of how he thought about business. And cause I didn’t have the same, cause I don’t have the business acumen. I couldn’t do it myself. There’s so many things I don’t know or don’t have access to. I don’t even know what I don’t know. You know, at that kind of level. And I knew he did and what he doesn’t know, he’ll find out, you know, and cause he had.
access to things that I don’t, but I could do things that he can’t. And so that’s a good partnership. And it’s been phenomenal to work with them and to have that because there is no pushback.
you know, cause we’ve never come across anything that we’ve disagreed on and been like, no, I don’t, I don’t think we can do that. You know, and then have an argument about it. It’s more like, okay. You know, I’ll just throw it out there. What do think about this? I don’t know. Okay. Yeah, you’re probably right. You know, and so it, that’s been very helpful because that’s not normal. That’s not typical, I guess, of business relationships or even relationships in general. You know, there’s always,
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tension and push back and there was a little bit and because of how frenetic I work and then having to Not ask for permission, but let people know what I’m doing Because it’s tough sometimes I work so fast that it just a piece is done, know, it’s like I didn’t know you were working on that. yeah, that was a
It was last night. Or it’s just something I had in the garage and I just sort of played around with. But now I’m learning to share more, you know, and just be more open. It’s like, yeah, I’m working on this. I don’t know if it’s going to go anywhere. But just so you know, this is how my head works and I can’t stop it. Yeah. Yeah. It’s been wonderful. Just quickly, though, I love doing this podcast. If it’s positively impacted you in some way and you would like to support us, please subscribe by subscribing.
It allows us to build a much bigger base of listeners, which results in better guests, better production and a better show overall. Alternatively, please take a look at the affiliate links of the products that I use and love in the comments below and consider purchasing using those links. They’ll give you a discount and they’ll also provide the podcast a small kickback. These are two very easy ways for you to support us as we continue to grow the podcast.
that we absolutely love doing. Thank you for your support. And I’m back to the episode. I want to touch on the high profile clients a little bit more. So let’s talk about in more detail, the Mike Tyson story, how that happened. So for some context, you did a commission for him. I did. I did a piece for him, but it’s, I did two. You did two? Yeah. It’s the first time I’ve ever done two pieces in tandem.
So the team contacted us. Again, social media, do you think? I don’t. So. Because you have you have a big, how big is your following on TikTok? Well, if you include Juliette’s, if you include the girl who eats art, because it is still my work focus, we’re like three or four million across the platforms. She’s like a million four on YouTube. So is that her? So her stuff on YouTube is predominantly your work?
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Yeah, yeah. So she’s the girl who eats art. And so she started that a year and a half ago based on something she did when she was 16 at one of my shows. And so she just pulled a piece off. It was an image of a rose. And it was a rose by any other name made out of candy. And there was a bowl of candy, real candy next to it. And so was all hand cast. And so she calls Richard over. It was actually her father.
And she’s like, Richard, your business partner is her dad. Yeah. Got it. And so she runs all of the media and the interface. And so that’s the way that I structured the company is that I don’t interface with the clients or the galleries or anyone really. It just allows me to work because it’s just, it’s too intense and it’s just too much for me to get in. So they do all the negotiation and the whole structure of how things are shipped and sold and dealt with. And I get involved when there are questions or if I need to.
design and then, you know, on a technical basis. Right. Yeah. And so she called her dad over and she said, you have to film this. This will be great. And she takes a piece of candy off and eats it. And it went crazy viral, like 70,000 hits in a day. It just went crazy. And so that was always an aspect of what we did social media wise. And so we had different reveals because again, we’re shoehorning art.
into platforms that aren’t built for it. TikTok especially was the most absurd one because I thought it was a joke to start a TikTok because we did it during the pandemic. And she said, no, this will be great. And I was like, all right. I don’t dance, I don’t sing, I don’t do anything. She’s like, we’re going to do what you do, but we’ll do it in a way that makes sense for this. And 1.3 million followers later, it’s crazy.
It’s just been overwhelming. so, and we do, we’re active or she’s active, both are active on all the platforms. And it’s just been an integral part of sharing the work because print media is essentially dead. I do some television work, but again, that’s not the same as it used to be. reach. How are you going to reach what? The Elon Musk one that we spoke about has hundreds of millions of views. 160. Across all the platforms. No, just one. That’s just Instagram.
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This reel for maybe lead it up quickly because it’s so funny. Yeah, it was a custom piece of Elon Musk. And so it’s a picture of him with the First Amendment behind him. Yeah. This First Amendment, which people don’t notice. Yeah, I noticed that. Which is interesting because that’s... The point. Right? And so that’s what it was. So that’s why the person wanted, they wanted this sort of F you freedom of speech kind of thing. And so it’s all middle fingers.
like 10 or 20,000. It’s a lot in that one, but it’s just, it’s just a close up. And that’s all it is, is just a quick zoom in. It’s like 14 seconds long and 116 million views. God. The defiance one, the large Donald Trump piece, the large defiance, that one’s in the, probably across all the platforms, very close. That’s in the 50 to a hundred million range. You couldn’t get, what news outlet, what media outlet is going to get you 50 million views?
in a way that still isn’t the spirit of the work. Because they’re both called defiance. And so, and I’ve done nine versions of the Trump piece. And so there are versions of the mugshot where the background, so the face is middle fingers, but the background is peaches because it was, you know, Atlanta, Georgia. And then there’s the gunshot or the assassination attempt. So that one, the flag is actually bullets.
and then the rest of its middle fingers. So it’s all a play on it. And it’s all still thematically defines. And it can be read from both sides. And that’s what I love about it is I can have that conversation with anyone without anyone knowing what my political bent is. Well, didn’t. Yeah, I didn’t at all. I just saw that it was quite funny and interesting. So yeah, it’s great. I love it. So what came from these? So we’ll go back to Mike Tyson and the key.
his team reached out, you made two commissions. That’s it, pretty straightforward stuff. Yeah, well, was, they asked for one and then I started it and started designing it and then they asked for a second one because they wanted to have one for them and one for him. And this was during, just before the Jake Paul fight. wow. Yeah, which is, so part of the contract is I wanted to go to the fight. Yeah. But it got canceled because I think Tyson had an ulcer and he had other health issues and then...
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when it came back around, I think it was in the- You’re busy? Yeah, I was busy and it just didn’t work out timing- Let me know next time I’ll take the second. Yeah, exactly. But Richard went actually. And so he met with the team and, cause again, he’s the interface, know, he’s, it’s the buffer. And that’s really important for what I do is to have that, especially as an artist, because in the art world, it’s so easy to take advantage of creatives because well, we don’t think the same way.
you we don’t think business wise, you know, typically. say, you’ll just, we’ll give you this. Okay. So, but yeah, that was, and so they were delivered and then I have a standing invitation to spend time with Mike Tyson. He sent a text and he’s like, thank you so much for this. This was incredible. And that was just wild because again, cause I don’t usually get to speak with the clients and sort of have that.
connection, that was kind of cool. He’s one of my dream guests for the podcast. He’s just such a fascinating person. And the storyline, he’s, he’s, he’s become very wise as he’s gotten older. You just see it in the way he communicates. Absolutely. He seems like a very genuinely kind person. I it seems sort of contradictory, but I think he is because he is very emotional. And I think he is very sensitive, but I think that’s, that’s what makes them so interesting is because
his persona and what he was asked to do and what he’s good at is so violent. But I don’t think just, I don’t know, something about him just, I’m just fascinated by. Yeah. I mean, I think the people who go through the hardest things and then come out the other side with that level of kindness, there’s a reason for it. That’s the whole point. I mean, being kind and thoughtful and
generous to people when you’ve had everything go your way is pretty easy. It’s a lot harder. still hard for people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s right. Yeah. So I heard something recently that spoke about this. was like,
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being peaceful, someone who’s peaceful and someone who is nonviolent, kind of doesn’t matter if you can’t fight. It’s a moot point. what’s the ultimate? What are you going to do? Nothing. Exactly. It’s the ability to be dangerous and then the choice not to. Right. That makes it a...
of endearing quality. Right. And that’s almost the same spirit as martial arts. Yeah. Is having the ability to, but not needing to use it. Yeah. Not having to. Or choosing, yeah, choosing Choosing not to. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Let’s wrap up with a few general philosophical questions. I like to ask all of my guests some of these questions. And I think, yeah, you’ll have some.
Interesting answers. So the war... No, I’m just kidding. So what’s a view you have that would make people either scratch their head or get angry? Wow. What I have found that confuses people and my ideas of right and wrong.
Yeah, we touched on this with the religious stuff. That I find that difficult. What do mean? To define right and wrong. And so when I get asked questions, what do you think about anything that’s happening in the news? The first thing that goes through my head is I wasn’t there. So I don’t know. And I don’t know all of the specifics that went into it. I have very general ideas of right and wrong. But in that specific moment,
Maybe what was done was the correct thing. Maybe not the right thing or the best thing. The optimal thing. Right. But maybe it was the only thing. But who knows? But I don’t know. That’s why I find it really tough to give, you know, advice or opinions on certain things because I wasn’t there. And I’ve been involved in a lot of things that are just difficult and painful. And so I’ve seen the world from...
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a weird aspect, growing up, I grew up around criminals and sort of knowing how to break the law and knowing how people solve those crimes. so then making sense of that. so knowing how little people actually know of a situation is amazing. know, and so that’s why I get, you know,
know, stumble sometimes. Well, was that the right thing? The trolley is a difficult thing. It depends. What do you think the answer is? I don’t, there isn’t. They’re all children. 100 children or one child. Man. Yeah. I don’t know. You’re gonna have to pick one. I’ll break the train. There’s always a third answer. There’s always I’ll quickly build.
a life-size mosaic that will absorb. And that’ll be fun. Nice. Well, what do you think, like this, but big enough for a train? Yeah, I could do that. There you go. So, and so that, because especially when you’re talking to other parents, because I’m raising children now, like, well, how do you raise children without moral values? I’m not.
amoral. I do have morals and they are based on intrinsic ideas, but to tell them, you can’t ever do this. You can’t ever do that. It’s tough. And with children, you do have to be a little bit more black and white because of how their brains are structured. So you can’t just be completely fluid. You can. It’s a hell of an experiment and it can be tricky to navigate that and then have them navigate through life knowing that they’re, you know, whatever the hell they want. But in a way you,
can, but there are limitations to that. it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s complicated. mean, it’s really kind of, and so the, yeah, I get a lot of pushback from that. It’s like, no, it’s just, you shouldn’t do this and you shouldn’t do that bedtime has to be. It’s like all these things, it just, they don’t make sense to me. So what do you think is right and wrong then if you had to sum it up it’s now with your current thinking, right? I think most of it is based on
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inner morality, social norms, all of that. Because right and wrong here is different than right and wrong in another country, depending on what you’re talking about. But for the most part, yeah, being good to people. mean, that is the basis of almost any spiritual or religious things. Don’t be an asshole. Just be good to people. Be good to yourself and be good to people. And in that alone really defines right and wrong, you know, is what I’m doing.
good or bad to that person. And then it’s finding that gray area. Well, it might be, but, you know, and so that is all morality. That’s all decision-making is you always have to choose one or the other. And based on what you can and cannot do, obviously, because there are laws and, you know, and then what is good, you know, and I think most people innately know what is good. Where do think that comes from? Do you think that comes from, you know, I think about this a lot in
America specifically from the Christian and Catholic and Protestant framework? Well, here, perhaps, yeah, because it’s very, yeah. Do we count, do all societies come to the same conclusions irrespective of religion? I think so because they’re societies and you have to, and you have to, you have to live with people. You have to live around people. We’re social creatures. Yeah. And some more so than others and some less so than others, but we are social creatures. So we have to be able to function.
with each other. mean, you just, have no choice. So yeah, that, that it has to be innate. Otherwise we couldn’t do it. It’d be full anarchy. And then we’d have no concept of harm or hurting, but we know we’ve all been hurt. We know what it’s like to be harmed. And so to have that mentality, then yeah, you know, not to do that to someone else, because that’s not right, but yet people still do it. So yeah, you know, it’s.
I don’t know. I think we have to because we live as social creatures. I don’t think we have a choice. Yeah. We’re not lizards. some are. So the sewers of New York. The lizard people. Yes, exactly. What’s the biggest thing over the last two years you’ve changed your mind on? I think how I react.
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time is, I think is what does it for me. So I have an idea of what I think of people or what I thought of people because of what they did or how it affected my life. In the last few years that has changed. Has it changed the more successful you’ve become? No, it has changed because of how much work I’m doing on myself. What does that work look like? It’s,
Ayahuasca. Yeah, Big trips. Now, just working on sort of how I make sense of sort of my emotional self, which I’ve never really worked on because again, I can be really intense and sort of coming, you know, as I get calmer, you know, as my children are getting older and need more guidance, it’s...
pushing that, being more calm, being more respectful of people around me and not just unaware. So having a family has forced that? Yeah, amazingly well. There are still challenges and that, like I said, that’s what sort of took me down the path of why do I think the way that I think and how can I change that? And it’s what’s made it successful being in a relationship for so long.
even when my parents weren’t or her parents weren’t. we both. you’re both children of divorce? Absolutely. so, then. That’s rare. Yeah. And it’s, it’s a challenge. It’s a challenge for both of us because of again, how we see the world and each other, we, come to a consensus all the time about a lot of things, which is helpful because we see things sort of the same way, but yet from different sides, different angles and
grew up in very different ways. But being able to work on, mean, that emotional sort of work. And I don’t think enough people do that. What techniques have you used to get there? There’s been some therapy. So it’s a new thing? Therapy’s been a newish thing? Sort of. I mean, I’ve touched on it and then walked away from it. And now I’m sort of seeking it out again, again, to learn new techniques and how I react.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:00:24.846)
And so how can I not do this? And I can do it in any work environment. I can sort of figure out, but in any project that I’m working on, can figure out, I can design. But when it comes to emotional things, I’m like, eh, I don’t know. It doesn’t make sense to me. And so that’s what I’m trying to work on. And then being more aware and more empathetic and all of that, just making it.
a priority, which it never was because it didn’t have to be, know, people tolerated a sort of how I thought and how I thought. you were good at your job. Well, that and you know, it’s taking advantage of social norms. You know, if you’re an artist, you’re allowed to be eccentric and you’re almost given a free ticket to and that’s a bad thing if you don’t have self control. It’s a bad thing if you’re a dick.
Exactly. No calling you a dick, of course. generally. Look at the time. But yeah, exactly. And it’s very easy to fall into that, especially if you are just so hyper-focused on things. It’s easy to sort of worry about people or do things in weird ways that, again,
cause harm, and it’s being aware of that. And I am trying to be very hyper aware of how I say things and all that, because again, I have very strong feelings, but I don’t want to impose that. I never want to impose that on people and tell them, this is how you should think, because I don’t believe that. This is how I think. And I can tell you why. I can give you the path on why I’m this way, but I’m trying to...
And I think, again, going back to the question, what if I changed my mind on relationships that I’ve had and that were soured or were strained are less so now. Yeah. Has it made you more effective in your career? Yeah, definitely. It makes it easier to work with me. Yeah. Is that a good thing for the outcomes? It is. Okay. Because I’m letting go. I’m letting go of some of the, you know,
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:02:41.13)
So many people have failed me in the past and there’s no way anyone’s ever going to do anything good for me. know, self-fulfilling prophecy, do you think? Yeah. And so letting go of that saying, well, no, let’s, let’s think about this in a different way. You know, what can they do for me? How can I help them help me? You know, and how can I, you know, and it’s being more of a partner.
You know, instead of just the lone wolf who’s like, I’m gonna do it all, you know, and that doesn’t work with everything, especially emotionally does not work and is very destructive. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Cool. I like that. That’s a good answer. What, what’s an example of a small kind gesture somebody has done for you that’s impacted you in a large way? The most profound was my art teacher in seventh grade and
She sort of took me under her wing, got me into college. She’s the reason why I can hear all that. So she was the impetus for all of that. She was the focus of that and like sort of gave me that initial direction. This is what you can do. This is what you are capable of doing and this is how you can do it. And those...
early years, I mean, we were friends for, I sort of lost contact because of, you know, just moving around and everything. But those early years were just instrumental. And that really sort of was that snowball of, you know, having the right people at the right time, push you in the right direction and then help you with certain things. And so it’s made it easier for me when people come and say, can you help me with this? Absolutely. I can help you with that. I want to help you with that.
because I know the impact and profound impact that it can have, especially with educators and just making these small little, noticing someone and noticing their abilities and special things about someone is sometimes all that you need. that’s, yeah, I think that was probably the biggest, most profound thing, just her taking an interest in what I did and what I wanted to do and me as a person, I think it just.
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I don’t know where I would be without that. It would not be here. Yeah. How do you show up differently for people now? Or how does that affect your decision making with the world around you? I have a deep desire to help people. Yeah. But if I’m sought out, I almost never say no. Yeah. But again, because of my focus, I’m not.
seeking out. Yeah. You know, but if, if people stumble upon, know, you know, ask for it, I’m there, you know, ride or die. It’s like, all right, let’s, let’s make this happen. What’s the beauty, what’s the most beautiful thing you’ve created?
besides my children, because I know they’re listening. They are beautiful children. I think that if I’m going to go artistically. At this point, go anywhere. Go anywhere you want. If I’m going to go artistically, think it’s the chandelier was one of the most pure unadulterated ideas that I’ve ever had.
I love gummy bears. Yes, I could. They are. And it’s a core memory of mine from, you know, the movie Ferris Bueller’s Day Off. Yeah. That last scene where Rooney is sitting in the bus, you know, he’s just dripped the shreds and they’re all hands on the warm gum. They’ve been in my pocket all day. And it’s, my God, he just blings it across. And it’s a core memory. I can’t ever not see that. And I’ve...
just been obsessed with gummy bears ever since wanting to do something. And this right there was sort of that first thing, but then the chandelier, God, the idea of light through candy and then it’s so universal. And that was the other thing about it. It was so pure because it doesn’t matter where you are culturally, where you’re from, how old you are. Everyone knows gummy bears in the last hundred years worldwide. You know, it’s now a descriptive term.
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So, know, Haribo doesn’t even call them gummy bears because they never copyrighted it. And so they’re the creators of it. And so it’s, and I just thought it was interesting to be able to take something that iconic and then to make something so beautiful that should not exist. yeah. art, right? Creating things that should not exist and making sense. Yeah, that’s true. Yeah. Nice. So wrapping up, what’s, what’s the lesson you’d hope that people can take away from this conversation and your life?
I think the biggest one is to not listen to people. I know it’s, yeah, I do. I teach defiance. My children are defiant and they’re not, they’re not defiant. They’re not compliant. And that is troubling for people. They don’t do things just because they’re told to do things because they make a decision to do it. And so growing up,
everything that I was told that I couldn’t do or would never be able to do, I just assumed was a lie. And there was some ulterior motive on why I was being told that. How often do you think you were correct? Every single time. You think so? I, the story. So you love a good conspiracy theory then? Well, this is why, because when I, again, in fifth grade, they how old are you going to be in the year 2000? Wow, year 2000, just a kid, I’ll be 25. So I create this list of
Well, I want to be able to hear and travel, study abroad, go to college, get married. And so I had this whole list and I finished it by 25. And that was a crisis for me. I finished my bucket list of all the things that they literally said I could not do, either I couldn’t afford to or physically would not be able to do. And so that’s why the push is there. It’s like, did it. Damn it, I did it. What else can I do? Yeah.
where else can I take it? Now where can I take these things? How can I make it better or different and all of that? And so the naysayers and I’m fueled by it every time and it still happens because social media is just an awful, awful place because I mean it is because they really, for the most part, it’s who can hate it first best. it’s, man, it’s difficult. It is difficult to navigate through that. But if you can, if you can just push back.
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You go, no, I’m going to do it. I will make it happen. I will figure the things out because we live in a society where you never have to not know. We have a computer in our hand almost all day long. And if you want to learn something, do something, be somewhere, you can. Everyone has access now and almost unlimited access to information. And what you do with that, that’s the important thing. So can you use that in a way that allows you to achieve those dreams?
Probably, most likely. I mean, cause that’s again, growing up here, it’s the American dream. And they always talk about it. there is, well, the American dream is just being the right person with the right skillset at the right time. And that’s all it ever was. And so if you look at the, the leaders of industry, that’s all it ever was. That person in another time.
and it worked. Yeah, Warren Buffett talks about this a lot. He’s like, I just happened to be born in a time period where they really rewarded this innate skill set that I was interested in. Right. And that’s true with everything. Cause you can be the best at anything. You could be, and this is what I, you know, it’s like, not everyone can do the art that you do. Well, you’re right. Not everyone can, but there are those who can and there are aspects of it that you could do, but that’s just what I chose to do. So if you want to be the best father you can be, then do that.
then focus on that. But there are things that you can do to make yourself better. A lot of that is mental health and all of that, you know, the things that we don’t normally focus on because as a society, we don’t want to talk about it, but it exists and everyone struggles with it. And so, and that’s always been the biggest thing is if you want to do it, then do it, you know, or find the team that’ll help you do it. You know, the people around you will support you. And if you aren’t around people who don’t support you.
There you go. You’ll find them somewhere. You’re going to find a lot of others there, but you will find them. Yeah, definitely. I have a similar, well not exactly, but the confusion of doing what you’re told just because you’re told to do it. Story from high school, I had my science teacher, my year 12, final year science teacher, he was talking about some topic.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:11:49.312)
And I’ll never forget this. He was explaining something and I said, okay, cool, why? And then he got to the reason why and I said, cool, but why does that happen? And then he got to the next level and said, yeah, and then why does that happen? And he got to the point where his knowledge ended and he goes, that’s just the way it is, now stop talking. And I remember thinking to myself, that’s a strange response for somebody who’s supposed to be teaching me something.
And yeah, I thought about that ever since. That exact thing is why I don’t do that to my children. When they ask, I will deep dive to the nth and it is exhausting. Or you can say, I actually don’t know. Right. That’s okay to say I don’t I don’t know, but let’s find out. And that’s hard. That’s why people don’t do it. That’s why, you know, as an educator or a parent, it is hard to do, but it’s what you should do.
If you want to teach, if you really want to encourage and embrace the idea of knowledge and you have to do that. And it’s, it’s it’s work. It’s a lot of work and it’s, it’s easy to say, well, I don’t know. It’s just, it’s the way it is and there’s no reason for it. And, but okay, let’s stop everything. You know, mean, for most times you can, you can stop everything and let’s, let’s figure this out. I don’t know.
you know, let’s ask Alexa or Siri or whoever is, you know, wiretapping me at this moment. Yeah, they’re all wired at me. But they always have the answers. do. They do. Yeah. Nice. So, so what are you excited about at the moment that you’d like to let listeners in on and where can people find you? I’m in the middle of so many projects that I’m just really happy about. I’m working on
my version of The Last Supper. It’s gonna be chicken wings. That’s gonna be great. Yeah, it’ll be interesting. I’ve been planning this one for quite a while and I’m not sure when I’ll have it finished because the way that I work, I work with like three different lists. So I have my dream list and the Defiance came out of that, Healer came out of that. And then I have like gallery lists and then I have commission work.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:14:12.182)
And so I work off of all three at the same time. And so when I have time to work on them, do. But that’s what I’m really excited about. And I have possibilities of, oops, sorry, showing it like in a church, displaying it first. So I’m working on that, which cathedral. There’s a couple that have asked.
So we’ll see what happens. It depends on how controversial it ends up being. Because I do that sometimes. But yeah, I can be found. I’m easy to find. I’m actually the only Kevin Champion in the world as far as I know. And so, yeah, you can find me on Facebook and Instagram, TikTok. Not so much on X, but I’m there. I’m on every single platform.
former way and it’s originally on Tumblr. That’s how I started, which is really funny. Yeah, cool. Yeah, nice. Sounds good. And my last question for you is what do think the meaning of life is? All these softball questions. yeah. Warms you up. Wow, the meaning of life. I do wonder if it is contentment.
So the exact opposite of what you’ve had. What exactly? What I hope to achieve someday that I will have come to a point in my life that I am calm and it’s quiet to be able to wade through all the noise and everyone wades through their own noise. And mine is weird in its own way. But I think that
sense of calmness and happy happiness. think I think that might be the closest to the meaning of life is to be able to achieve that against all odds. So peace, peace. So what’s stopping you from being content now? I can’t shut my brain off. I can’t stop it. And so I have it in moments. I have it in certain aspects. Do you shut it when you’re
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:16:32.682)
in the process of creating art? It’s quieter. it’s never not there. And so even as I’m working, I’m always learning. the piece, drug money piece that I built, a by eight foot, hundred dollar bill done one to one to the engraving to an actual hundred dollar bill with 80,000 painkillers was a year in the process. And I didn’t know how to make it when I designed it.
And it was only as I was working on other pieces that they’re either similar in size or shape, or I’d learned something new about color, that I was able to achieve certain aspects of that piece during other pieces as I was thinking about it going, this would work for that. this would allow me to do that aspect of it. And so yeah, it’s just layers and layers and it’s a constant state of noise.
Are you having fun though? Love every minute of it. I mean, that is the answer. Yeah, I do. I love it. It’s hard. I’ve worked harder now than I’ve ever worked in my life. And I have a, you know, but I get concerned about that, you know, because there’s a fine- When will it stop? We’re going the wrong direction. Because there is a fine line between obsession and compulsion and passion, you know, and I-
I I waver. I think that two sides of the same coin. Yeah, I hope so. And I do. I hope that it is that there is a balance and that it is essentially the same. know, me, if you were in the studio, I’m an organized hoarder. So without the studio, I would just be a hoarder. So, you know, but the fact that I can.
package it all nice and neat and clean in bins and stack them and have them all labeled makes it okay. But without that, I would be on the TV show. So all of them on the TV show just haven’t found their art yet. That’s it. And I watched some of them going, wow, they could. They want to. They don’t see the pattern. Yeah, they don’t see the system. That’s so funny. Kevin, thank you. Appreciate you coming on. This was wonderful.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:18:52.526)
And if you’ve made it this far, please go to YouTube search that one time with Adam Metwally, click subscribe, like the video and leave us a comment. Come on. Thanks. Nice.
