Stop Comparing. Start Noticing: Why Appreciation is Your Secret Career Weapon.

You have two choices: have a good time or have a bad time.

I just sat down with Timm Chiusano.

An Emmy award-winning former Fortune 100 executive who led 240 people before choosing a different path.

In this episode you’ll learn:

• The “Trojan Horse” of diplomacy that gives you the upper hand in every office power dynamic.

• How a 3 AM automated email system can transform your team’s culture without adding extra work.

• Why appreciation is the foundation of well-being, while gratitude is merely transactional.

We dive into the details later in the conversation.

If you like the episode, please subscribe.

Timestamps

00:00 Intro
01:05 The Central Park lesson: You always have a choice
06:02 Parenting and transferring values to the next generation
08:13 The outward-facing secret to resetting your self-worth
14:13 Why “trying too hard” is actually a competitive advantage
19:06 Missing out on the CMO job was the best thing for my career
32:48 Why a 12-hour walk can turn dark (and how to finish it)
35:09 The critical difference between Appreciation and Gratitude
41:18 The 10,000 people who will change the world in the next 30 years
48:27 Noticing: The gateway to finding your deepest passions
1:04:17 How to use appreciation to “fuck up” your enemies in business
1:11:13 Being a leader vs. being an admin
1:22:27 A life philosophy for finding happiness in the mundane

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Here’s the full transcript:

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (00:00.014)

You have two choices in life. You can choose to have a good time or you can choose to have a bad time. Tim Shisano, Emmy award winning, former Fortune 100 company executive who led a team of 240 people, but recently quit to focus on content creation and writing. Being the author of an upcoming book, How to Get Addicted to Appreciation, available in September, 2026. We should be constantly curious about all of the things that go into all of us. Just the act of noticing.

That can put you on a path to having a deeper relationship with everything in your life. So appreciation is a precursor to kindness, by the sounds of things. When you’re practicing appreciation, you are simply practicing the art of noticing the world around you and the ability to see the good in whatever it is. A disposition of appreciation can help you have a better day to day, not be so hard on yourself and give yourself a better opportunity to make whatever you want to do with your time that you have.

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (01:04.777)

Being raised by a radio executive father and an artist mother would have given you unique insights into the way the world works. So with that, what are the contexts of your developmental years that allow us to understand you better? First part would be the conversation I had with my mom in Central Park in 1982. I was about five. I was not in

preschool or kindergarten yet. The bunch of kids came into Central Park during their like recess or whatever. And I had this one rock that I played on every single day. And these kids came in and they started playing on the rock too. And I remember being pissed like, who the fuck are these kids and why are they playing on my rock? And like kids do sometimes when they don’t get their way, I was pouty and went and sat in the corner by myself and was just grumpy.

And my mom came over to me and she said, you have two choices in life. You can choose to have a good time or you can choose to have a bad time, which basically meant like you can get your shit together and go play with the kids or at least just not be a grumpy little shit in the corner. Or you can be a grumpy little shit in the corner. And literally stuck with me obviously to this day about.

The choice that you have in regards to how you’re viewing the circumstances, regardless of what they may be. Yeah. It sounds super lofty and potentially even like a little pretentious in some context. But literally got her through alcohol addiction, got my family through battles with cancer, Jesus, between the two of them like 10 times, all kinds of shit. And.

People throughout the course of history who have come across the worst things have chosen to figure out a way to get things done. So whether that is they screwed up my coffee this morning and that’s going to make me feel a certain way all day or I can’t believe it’s raining again or whatever. The impact that it had on my life to have a mom who had that is like one of the core beliefs and basically made us live that all the time.

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (03:23.566)

Literally, my dad was a stage four cancer survivor. Melanoma, he was on an experimental chemotherapy, one of 80 people that survived this experiment. And even through that, there was like a no, we’re not feeling sorry for ourselves in this house. Like, my dad get up and shave and like be as normal as humanly possible when he wasn’t in the hospital. And so like that’s...

Just a snippet of my mom’s perspective. You go into my parents’ apartment and there’s not only a bunch of couches still to this day that she pulled off the street. She tells the story of going to an antique store right after it had a fire and they were like throwing all the stuff away to grab what is now largely the furniture in my, still my parents’ house like 50, 60 years later. And her just overall love of life.

The fact that she is an artist by trade, a former flight attendant with TWA, like just checks all the boxes for colorful, for perspective, for whimsy, for poetry, for like all the things. And my dad, a very similar to me, dumbass at heart, he would say the same thing, not great at school. He made himself a brilliant career in the radio space, had to deal with some

very strange circumstances during his career and did it all in a way, you know, especially when he was around other people and how he treated other people. The way that I would always notice if I’d go to visit him at the office, like how everyone from the most important person in the office to the people that I always saw as also the most important people in the office and that I would only later find out like, their role was blank.

And blank wasn’t exactly like the highest or sexiest title. But my dad was just like that with everybody. He was the kind of guy who, back in the day when you actually paid tolls, would sometimes randomly, and especially if we were driving somewhere with other people, would pay for everyone’s toll behind him, A, to be a nice dude, and also to speed up the process. So the combination of an executive mindset from somebody that didn’t have the greatest education background

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (05:46.83)

an artist, you know, being an only child too, and I think just being subjected to adults all the time, or at least in a disproportionate way versus other kids who have siblings made for what people see today. And it’s kind of funny how it’s almost a blueprint for, that would make sense. Like not a great education background, gotten into corporate America, did reasonably well, and always had this like...

Artist part sounds weird to say, but I like thinking about it like an art kind of. And how can I craft whatever I’m doing in a way that’s going to be interesting and be able to connect an audience with an idea in a way that’s different from the way other people might explain that same thing. So it was like the perfect combination between the two of them. How have you now instilled these values that you learned from your parents into your family?

the it’s it’s it’s funny because I like my the way I try to see my role in the house is God, it’s I’ve never had to like answer it this way. It’s it’s passing along a lot of the same ethos. It’s trying to. The wild card and probably why I’m stumbling with the answer is because I’m I have a daughter and being a girl that I think is like something that is super unique.

and so special for so many different reasons. So it almost feels like while there is inherently going to be elements that my parents put into me that are then going to come out almost naturally, there’s this brand new nature of, holy shit, I have the responsibility of helping this person become the best woman that she can potentially be. I’m not a female. I’m not female, so I don’t know exactly what that path looks like.

The care and I think just the overarching humility that comes with being a girl dad, quote unquote, makes it super unique. So I feel like my job in the house is to help everybody else have the best day humanly possible every single day to the best of my ability. So what makes a day the best day humanly possible? Everybody feels like they are

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (08:13.55)

accomplished enough without being too exhausted and have had elements of joy sprinkled in throughout the course of the day. What about through the tough days? Same thing, but with a the ability to still have great question with the ability to still have enough confidence and Feel like their self-worth isn’t depleted so much that it makes the next day that much more difficult Interesting. So do you have any good techniques to reset?

your self-worth at the end of the day and when a day, when there’s been a day where you’ve just been completely pummeled. Yeah. Another brilliant question. I would say focusing on other people, right? Like when, when I was at my most depleted, especially when I was still trying to balance all the things and do the corporate job, plus all of the other stuff that I didn’t know I was building, but I was building just in case. And even now, when I feel like I’m at my lowest, when I

can do something that is outward. It distracts myself from myself. And I think that that’s the secret sauce, right? Like you don’t think about how you are feeling or like what the woe is me part might be, whether that is self-inflicted or not. And then you can channel your energy towards something that is inherently going to rebound and bring you joy simply because you did it. And especially if you do that thing without any expected outcome on the other side,

You can reconfigure your energy in a way that is going to automatically become positive because is outward facing and also get you more thoughtful and creative in ways that is distracting from whatever might be beleaguering yourself. As long as you are responsible to understanding your feelings and what your own needs are, I think that what I just described is an amazing way to just like refocus your energy and get you back into a

This is how I am contributing positively and why I should feel comfortable and confident in how that positive energy can beget positive energy for myself as well. Sure. What’s an example of that? Back in the day when I was in the corporate space, that could be just recognizing somebody’s good work. That could be going back into something that I might not have had the time in the moment to say thank you to somebody for.

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (10:34.402)

that could be just randomly thinking about the course of a day and somebody that contributed in a way that I know that they would feel better if they just got a random note from the boss that was like, hey, just want to say 1130 meeting that you really kicked ass, you know, keep it up and super proud of you lately, whatever that might be. I used to keep, and then you can build systems into your day that actually create these trigger moments so that you.

can be thoughtful about it like what I just described. But you can also have it baked in so that you can’t not have it part of your day. Example is every single morning, or I think it was every single Monday. I can’t believe I don’t remember this off the top of my head anymore. I think it was every single, yes, it was every single Monday. At 3 AM, I had an email triggered to myself from our larger database of employees. And it was.

everyone’s birthday for the week ahead and anybody that had a employee anniversary. That way I knew and then I could throughout the course of the week, depending on who it was. And I tried to also not be the boss. It was like, Oh, here’s the boiler plate thing from Tim again, because it’s my birthday, like actual thoughtful, specific notes based off of the person. And yes, there were 240 people, but like they were spreading across the country. So obviously like the season and

who they were and how I knew them and what was happening weather wise. What was their favorite sports team? Like how was their family doing? Like these types of things that I could bake in and be like, hey, happy birthday. I hope Johnny and Susan like really took care of you this year or happy birthday. I’m sure the Packers went on Sunday was like a really nice way to celebrate whatever the case may be. Having an automatic email triggered to me to tell me this is who has a birthday this week or work anniversary.

was an amazing way to build a system that created an environment in which I could be thinking outwardly on a consistent basis without having to be like, feel like I’m starting from scratch all the time, so to speak. also made it that much easier to be present on a consistent basis too. So I wasn’t constantly like going through my head of like, who have I not thought about and how do I do this, this and this? Like I literally tried to idiot proof everything for myself, including things like.

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (12:55.534)

How do I create externally focused positive energy? So how do you find the time to maintain that thoughtfulness without any space and a packed calendar? Because that’s tough. it’s super tough. It requires patience and practice. Like literally, the more you do it, the easier it becomes. It’s kind of like driving a car where the first however long, you’re like, this thing is gigantic. Five miles an hour feels like 1,000. I’m going to hit everything.

this is just scary to, I can be one hand on the wheel doing 50 and be like, cool, this car totally fits in between those two, that kind of thing. It’s giving yourself benefit of the doubt over time as well so that you are comfortable that your initial reaction to how to respond to somebody or how to be more thoughtful is one worth acting on.

is long as you’re okay with one of my fault is trying too hard, right? Like trying too hard in that I won’t feel ashamed to send that note to that person. That’s like, Hey, you know, just I was thinking about you or really appreciated this or, you know, sending a little like those types of things. And some people think it’s like, like he really like he’s just trying too hard overall. That’s always been my fault. And I’m cool with that.

Right? Like no one’s going to be perfect. Like you’re not going to find the perfect balance across the board, but allowing myself to act in an uninhibited way, so to speak, at least relative to just like the kindness that could be put out there on a consistent basis made it easier to be like, I am focused and yes, I have eight hours specifically of meetings together, but there’s also that like monkey in the back of my head. That’s like, you know, don’t forget it’s so-and-so’s birthday tomorrow. And you know, so-and-so’s wearing a funny shirt, like

say something nice or bad or whatever the case may be. So it’s allowing yourself to be a little childish too, in a way that a five-year-old would walk up to an adult and be like, hey, I drew you a picture just for no reason. And letting that version of myself always be alive, I think, helps make it all possible. Yeah, I think finding the childlike joy of your life and the world around you is one of the secrets to a happy life.

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (15:16.792)

Totally. especially when you get the opportunity to literally watch that whole thing happen all over again when you have a kid of your own is the craziest shit. I will never forget the first time she figured out she had a shadow. That was the wildest thing. I’m like, yo, why are you bugging out right now? And I’m like, shit, you just realized you have a shadow. This is the craziest thing to watch happen in real time. And she’s walking back and forth. Or even the times where she knew what a mirror was, but would still get

fascinated by the fact that somebody was throwing away a mirror on a Brooklyn street and she would walk past it and like see herself and then just like want to stay in there and hang out with it for a minute. And it just reminds you that everything really is that special and unique, which is why I think the whole idea of appreciation in general is just such an interesting concept because you’re allowed to inherently think at this like constant level set of, everything is interesting.

versus I need something to happen in order to show gratitude for it. Like, no, everything is just fascinating shit all the time, as long as you don’t let that five-year-old in your brain ever go away. Yeah. When has trying too hard been a net negative in the long run? Has it ever been a scenario? It is a phenomenal question. What immediately comes to mind is the last really big job that I tried to get and that I didn’t get it.

And this is a super true story. And I actually have the pictures to back it up. I had this card that I bought. It was like a thank you card. just, don’t even know what the hell the purpose of the card was. Like New Yorker cartoons or New Yorker cartoons. I always get those two magazines mixed up. Best cartoons on the planet, in my humble opinion. And they sell greeting cards. And there was this one card. And it’s.

two guys sitting across a desk from each other in an interview setting. And one looks super eager. And the other one just looks like I’m so done with this conversation. And the guy who’s so done with the conversation has the little blurb underneath him. It says, what the hell? could use an idiot. You’re hired. And I went for the CMO job at my company in 2020.

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (17:38.99)

I knew, and the president basically told me out of the gate, like, you’re not going to get this. There’s a big age discrepancy between the two of us and a lot of other reasons why, in hindsight, I understood why he was trying to manage my expectations immediately. And I’m like, I don’t hear a word you’re saying. This job is mine. I’ve been here for seven years. This makes all the sense in the world. I’m going to get the job. You’re going to hire me. I’m going to convince you that I need to be hired. Like, there’s really no other outcome here.

I even had this vision in my head of exactly when the job offer was going to happen in such a specific way that I’m like, I’m manifesting this to the T. Even though I knew, like I literally knew I didn’t make it to the last round, I still put in like a final card to say, Hey, I know the final decision is coming up. And I use that card that said, the hell we could use an idiot, which in theory is like the worst thing to put on the table, right? Cause you’re basically saying,

Hey, you’re kind of at your like, either you’re at the bottom of the barrel for this decision or you’re literally just thinking of an idiot and you’re just going to give in and give me the job. I scratched out the word idiot and underneath it wrote like, eager, hardworking, creative, et cetera. And inside I said, I told him a story. said, David, I bought this car 15 years ago or however long ago with no idea of when I was going to use it or for what purpose. And I go on to describe why I chose to use the card now.

as a way to show, I think differently than every other candidate that you have. When it comes to the long-term marketing of this company, I am the person who is going to give us the best chance to think differently and to truly differentiate ourselves in the space. And that could be an example of trying too hard, right? either tone Were you wrong? well, I was wrong in that I didn’t get the job. Were you wrong that you were the best fit for the job at that time, age aside?

I will say this, the person who ended up getting the job far more qualified ended up making me a better person overall, not just a better employee, but a better person overall. So the right thing happened, period. Do I think that there is a different business outcome if they chose me or him? Yes, but that’s just based on the nature of us having two different approaches to the business overall. So I don’t know if there was a right or wrong.

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (20:08.686)

But there was a, I don’t believe that everything happens for a reason because I think there are too many horrible things that happen in this world that I can’t say, oh, that happened for a reason. But I think this happened for a reason and the humility that I had to then swallow of, wow, it’s COVID, you hired somebody externally. Like that’s kind of a big sign that you didn’t really did not think that I was a person for this job.

Everybody in the entire 450 person marketing department was like rooting super hard for me. And I still didn’t get it. I’ve been there for seven years. I’m like, have I really now hit this massive plateau in my career in my mid 40s? But if I got that job, I ain’t sitting here with you. Like I’m doing something in Stanford or I’m doing something with charter communications. Like this ain’t happening. So.

The right thing happened. I know 1,000 % the right person was hired based off of what made the most sense for the business. And for me personally, in a very selfish way, the right person was hired to help me become a better and smarter human overall to then help lead to everything that happened after that. Would you say you’re happier now? Than I was when I applied for that job. Oh, yeah. Well, you know what?

I’m going to pause because I don’t know that I could scale my happiness like that. think that there is a, I’m still figuring things out on this other side. It’s been 520-ish days now. I’ve been counting pretty specifically. I don’t know the exact number, but it’s 500 and something days. Of doing something every day? Since I fired myself. OK, yeah. Yeah, no, it’s been, and I actually have this counter on my phone. It’s been.

close to like 8,700 days since I got my first real job, back when that was like 25-ish years ago. It’s been about 4,000 days since I got my executive level job. And it’s been about 520-something days since I responsibly fired myself and have been on this side. Happier is relative because

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (22:28.91)

More fulfilled, I’m more fulfilled because of the time that I’m spending with my family, which sounds super cliche, but you really cannot, can’t describe how absolutely sensational it is to legitimately drop off and pick up your kid super frequently from school. I used to do drop off a bunch. Drop off was my jam. We used to take the bike. It was amazing. But like, I was...

rarely there for pickup, like maybe twice a school year, understandably. I’m in Midtown. School’s out in Red Hook. It’s not going to happen very often. And my wife is a small business owner who is business. It was literally a half a mile away from the school. that made more sense. But now the fulfillment of being more present

especially for my daughter and the fact that my wife and I truly enjoy each other’s time as much as we do now, as much time as we’re spending together too. I think a lot of other people would be like, wow, this is like a lot, a lot, but we will actually miss each other during the day when the other person is like, has a whole bunch of stuff and is not going to be home for several hours. And she works 13, 14 hour days every single Monday.

And she wasn’t home for lunch this past Monday. And I remember calling her being like, hey, where are you? Like, I’m sitting here by myself. So definitely more fulfilled in different ways. I miss solving problems for people on a consistent basis. really, when I say I love that job and I love the people, I love that job and I love the people. It was like, I would argue.

And I really hope that at some point somebody like at Ad Age or Adweek will be like, cool, let’s sit down and have a conversation. Greatest job in the history of advertising. We focused on small business. We solved problems at scale. We utilized technology in ways that no other advertising agency was doing. I had the loveliest group of people spread out across the country that were born and raised in these towns and cities that were just

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (24:49.358)

so stoked to help these small businesses grow. We are the reason that you would see any small business on TV. And yes, you could argue like, dude, super low budget. Those are some of the cheesiest commercials in the history of advertising. And yeah, those are parts of the reasons why it was the greatest job in the history of advertising. So I miss all of that.

I do miss the office, I do miss the view, like all that stuff. I miss PNL meetings, like the most random, I do. I really miss PNL, I miss finance meetings, I miss HR meetings, but I get to be with my family in ways that I would never be able to otherwise. And I now get to, and this was part of the decision to leave, do I want to spend, I remember this one presentation came across my and it was like,

One of those annual things that I had to do that was arguably one of the top three most important presentations we would do as a company every single year is to like board members and all this super important stuff in the corporate space. And it was like, cool, Tim, like here’s another year. Like here’s what we want to do. This is what I remember the year before I got like standing ovation from the president for what we’d put together. And I was so proud of myself and all this kind of stuff. And being like, OK, I know this drill. This is going to take me

probably 30, 40 hours of work over the next three, four-ish weeks. Would I rather do that, or would I rather figure out how to explain the ins and outs of corporate America to another generation and use that same time to make that kind of content for people to help it scale? And I was like, no-brainer. I want the latter. Like, I really want to take everything I’ve learned up to this point and pay it forward in some capacity. I haven’t done that very well yet, but that’s what I’m building towards.

So I miss all the things, but there’s a level of contentment, both from a family perspective and also from an output perspective, that I just couldn’t do while still working that job. Quick side note, what did you use to keep track of all of those days? What app? I think it’s called Countdown. I it’s literally just called Countdown. And it’s like the most basic. You put in what the thing is, what the start or end time is, and it’ll keep this in a list.

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (27:07.566)

And right now for the first time, I’ve got this massive gap. And I think the next thing, even though there’s obviously like Christmas and New Year’s and like all that kind of stuff, I think the next thing in my app countdown is my anniversary again next April. But I was using like obviously the Ted talk had a countdown, um, you know, different draft due dates for my book.

You know, things like did a podcast where I interviewed Ken Burns on Valentine’s Day last year, like all of these things that were in there, but now I’ve got this gap. But yeah, I think it’s literally just called countdown. Super basic almost looks too easy, but sometimes those are the best ones. And I love being able look at my phone and be like, there’s X amount of days to this. Or the fact that I can count backwards now and literally open up my phone and be like, this is the exact amount of days since I started my first real job.

is a really nice measuring stick because now on the other side of it to have a constant reminder of if it took me 85, whatever, how many days to get to leaving the job. And if I spent about 4,000 of those days at an executive level job reminds me how much I’ve learned, how far I’ve come. And also to give myself a little grace now like

Yes, dude, it’s been x amount of time, but it’s also been percentage wise. Terrible at math at school, but I’m really good at managing a P &L and using numbers to conduct an argument. or something. The fact that there’s that percentage of time now on the other side means you need to be a bit more kind to yourself relative to what your expectations could be. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there’s that saying that you really overestimate what you can do in a year and underestimate what you can do in 10.

Love that. Love that. Well, I mean, now you get to change mindsets at scale. So you might be working with small businesses at scale, but you’re doing something different. It’s so funny. I’m trying. Today’s a perfect example of not doing it all that well. had what I would argue is a brilliant perspective put on the table. And it’s something that’s been simmering in the back of my head for a while. And I’m.

Metwally — That One Time Podcast (29:24.21)

So like as we’re sitting in a conversation like fuck should I go delete it and redo the opening line? Because I did a shitty opening like two or three seconds to it. The visual hook is terrible. So out of the gate at least in the first hour, which I know you really shouldn’t do like not performing as well as I would have hoped. But the point is fantastic. In the more forethought that I have like right now I’m literally making up content on the fly every single day. I have a running list. I have a Word document that has

300 plus pages and like several hundred thousand words of just random scripts and ideas and stuff, even though I make up everything off the top of my head or like 90 % of it off the top of my head. And a running notion document was like, here’s the idea, here’s a concept, here’s an inspiration, like that kind of stuff too. But still I’m like, shit, it’s Wednesday at four o’clock. Like, what am gonna do today? I’m really excited to get to a place where there’s more thought put into it and...

what I can do at scale because of everything that I have. It’s almost like there’s too much stuff in my head. There’s like too many learnings. It’s like, cool, you can do an entire email series. It’s like, OK, well, who is the core audience for that? Where do you start? What’s too basic? What kind of platform? Do I do it in a humorous way? Do I do it in a stark way? Right? Like the same way you were obsessing over the camera and the.

You do that as you know, you do that over the course of this is what a 20 minute YouTube could be, or even if this is what a 90 second TikTok could be, and you can spin yourself in circles. So I’m excited to really live up to what I feel like will be a miss and this will all be for not if I don’t find myself in a position and I don’t know what the reasonable amount of time is to take to be like, no, like you’ve, you’ve truly, truly, truly helped to scale at this point.

I don’t think I’ve scratched the surface of what’s possible yet. I know that I’ve definitely helped some people, but I still feel like I’m just not even close to getting to what’s possible yet. Well, I mean, if you help one person and that one person potentially said to Domino that changes the world, that is actually a genuine path. Totally. You don’t know. Totally. don’t know. Just quickly, though, I love doing this podcast. If it’s positively impacted you in some way and you would like to support us,

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please subscribe. By subscribing, it allows us to build a much bigger base of listeners, which results in better guests, better production, and a better show overall. Alternatively, please take a look at the affiliate links of the products that I use and love in the comments below and consider purchasing using those links. They’ll give you a discount and they’ll also provide the podcast a small kickback. These are two very easy ways

for your support us as we continue to grow the podcast that we absolutely love doing. Thank you for your support. And now back to the episode. I’ve been watching your content for a while and two things stuck out where the emotional intelligence box set, which I haven’t read it yet, but it’s sitting on my wall. the next. It will change so much for you. It’s the next book after I’ve finished. And you’ll fly through it too. Yeah, I’m slow reading it. I’m stood same. I suck at reading.

I suck at math, and I suck at reading. Good at math, terrible at reading. I was terrible at both. But. Good at storytelling. Me? I think so. Thank you. I flew through that series. Granted, it was like, it came at a super dark time. And I was like, I need to. But I was like, you were reading this on the subway every single night and every single morning until you’re done with it.

1,000 % have to tell me what you think we need to do with that. I will. And the 12 hour walk is in my calendar. Cool. It’s a bit cold now. So I’ll probably either do it when I go back to Australia for Christmas or when I come back and it warms up next year. The trick is make sure whatever you do at the end of the walk is something that is a true re-entry in a super chill way. It sounds almost counterintuitive that you go and you do this 12 hour thing and then you need a chill re-entry. You think like, oh, you want to get back to the way.

Just take it That’s what screwed me up and why the second half of my walk was super dark is because I was dreading what the conclusion was going to be. And then that sent me into this really dark spiral of, I shouldn’t think this way. What’s wrong with me? And the second half of the walk was terrible. So make sure that you have the most chill, relaxed, whatever brings you the most joy.

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in the most relaxed way for you is what you need to do at the end of that walk. And then you’re to have the most incredible experience. What was at the end of your walk that you were dreading? Honestly, it was the taco party at my house. It was like, which I know sounds really silly. And so you were ruminating for six hours over tacos. Yes. And here’s why. The house is going to be packed, which always gives me anxiety. Just because I’m as much as some people.

depending on who hears this and what they think of me before they hear it, some people will be like, dude, you put your entire life on social media. Like how in God’s name are you? But like, it does. Big difference. Energy’s in the room. Body’s in a room. Very different. And, you know, my wife, who is a social butterfly of sorts, or just like loves warmth and like a lot of warmth, was totally fine with having the people there.

be a mix of people that went on the walk and people that didn’t. So lots of people went on the walk. You had a group of people that on so like she or this was for, I learned about it from the guy who owns Lower Fish Bar in Soho. I told my wife, she’s like, this is happening for my birthday. She invited a dozen friends, got them all the book. We all met at the house. Went our separate ways because you’re not supposed to walk with anybody. So it was just like literally, hey, cool, see you, bye, scatter. And then.

All of those people plus some of their friends and family and some people that we invited but weren’t able to go meant that there were 25-ish people in my house when I got home. And for me, was almost like I’ve never done ayahuasca, but it almost felt like what I’ve read about ayahuasca. And then being like, hey, cool, do you want extra guacamole on your plate? Where it was just like, it was.

too stark of a jump for me. I was also dealing with a lot of anxiety around book deadlines and just a lot of other things happening where I just was freaking the fuck out. I was so freaked out. Literally, I get to the tip of Manhattan. I’d walked 18 miles at this point. And I start to go home. And within a mile or two back, I’m like, my god, I’m losing my shit. And it got so dark so quick. I started to think about death. I started to think about my friend that passed away a few years ago. I started to think about all of my shortcomings.

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And it was largely driven by why am I such an asshole that I can’t be comfortable going back to my house for this taco party? That just, and that just made for this like really, really, really difficult. And to sit there with your own thoughts for like another four hours, trucking back through Manhattan and wanting to have like joy in all of those moments too. Like I remember walking past 110th where the restaurant from Seinfeld, the exterior is.

and being like, oh, I want to go take a picture in front of that for my daughter. And then having all those other thoughts popping into my head and be like, I just got to keep walking. So yeah, do something that’s super chill for yourself. And I still feel bad that that’s a true story. But it’s a true story. And so for anybody that it helps that goes on the 12-hour walk, don’t do something that’s going to make you super anxious at the end. Do something chill.

I mean, it seems to me like it was exactly what needed to happen in that moment. Maybe that’s exactly what you needed to work through. Maybe. I mean, it’s funny because I don’t know that I’ve... Now that you say that, it is somewhat ironic that the next time we had a house full of people, I was more chill than I’ve ever been. And again, while I don’t believe that everything happens for a reason, I needed to make the most of the situation because it is so silly.

And because it probably, I mean, I would not, if I could go back and do it differently, I would not put myself through that same, like there were things that I just did not need to think through on that, on that part of the walk. I think it’s choose though, unfortunately, when these things come up. This is true. This is a thousand percent true. I’d also don’t know that like the, you know, the outcome and then the series of circumstances from there and what happened in the weeks that thereafter and all that kind of stuff, you never know.

Regardless, yeah, I highly recommend a 12-hour walk. I’ve done quite a few journeys over my time. No ayahuasca, but I’ve explored a few things that are pretty out of left field and esoteric. from what I’ve learned is, and what has given me some equanimity with difficult things is I actually don’t know where my head’s going to go. And I go into these things thinking to myself,

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regardless of how uncomfortable or hard or shit this becomes, just keep going with it. Just keep pulling the same thread. And eventually there’s always an end to that thread. It always ends eventually. Like it’s like this forever up and down. So we’ll see. Yeah. But thank you. So the point I was making was that, you know, I’m just one person in a sea of one and a half million people that you’ve potentially impacted and to do a

to do a 90 second video that might take you, I don’t know, four hours to make, to make me want to go on a walk for 12 hours. pretty, and that 12 hours could set the tone to create some ideas that change the way I approach the podcast. We could then spark another million people changing the way they think. It’s a good place to be. Yeah, it is.

It’s the Not to scare you. No, look, it’s the gift of a lifetime. Like what I’m doing right now is a gift of a lifetime. As funny as this may sound, I genuinely believe that if there was any broader purpose, and I do believe the purpose is built, purpose is not found, but if there’s any broader purpose to what I have been through so far, it was in a movie trailer scene.

I walk into a revolving door in a big ass building and out of it in the same breath. like the younger version of me is waiting on the outside is like, what the hell happened in there? And what I’m able to tell that person is what I’m supposed to be doing now. Yeah. And extracting that the right way is something I’m gross. I genuinely feel like I’m grossly fumbling with, but I’m so excited to continue to get better at extracting.

to be able to help, to your point, create change. I have this theory that there’s 10,000 people that are gonna change the world over the next 30-ish years. Those 10,000 people are the top 20 people at the Fortune 500 companies. And right now those people are 25-ish years old. And a lot of them are probably like, fuck corporate America, why would I want that manager job? This is all bullshit, stock incentives, all this stuff that just seems like it’s...

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the worst and the decay of civilization, why do I want any part of it? Governments are a mess. Corporate America has a disproportionate control over our lives. Most people are probably going to be like, if I polled just a bunch of random people, like, hey, how much control do big companies have in your lives right now? A of people are going to be like, yeah, no, like, we’re, it’s kind of everywhere. Like, it’s Coca-Cola and it’s this company.

you know, that controls the weed industry and it’s this company that controls the poultry and the blah blah blah blah. The top 20 people in the Fortune 500 companies then in theory have a disproportionate control over wage gaps, environmental policy, healthcare, all of these things that are pervasive problems, mental health, right, because so many people get super fucked up in the office. How I can potentially plant the seed into the people that would be

really skeptical and want nothing to do with growing their career and getting into a position of power and to try to help remind them that, look, when I was up at four o’clock in the morning doing emails, yes, there was a lot of that that was trying to get the CMO job and do things who had advanced my own career. But there are a lot of things too, like, hey, Jerry and Charlotte wants to go live in Erie, Pennsylvania, but we don’t have an office there. But like another part of the company has an office there. He wants to live closer to his

dying father-in-law, HR doesn’t think that that’s kosher relative to setting the right precedent, because then everybody in the company is going to want to be like, well, I want to work over here now for what are, how do I figure that out for Jerry? That shit takes work. That takes people with like empathy, dedication, people are going to punch the company clock and do all the shit and then be able to change things and impact people’s lives, right? So.

Part of the reason why I carry the burden, and I appreciate what you said about that cascading effect of impact one that impacts 100, that impacts 1,000, et cetera, is truly wanting to be in this position, especially when there’s so much, dude, I could have an entire, and I’m so tempted to do this too, entire anonymous account on TikTok that just does stitches about other people’s bad corporate content. Well, they’ll bring up these ridiculous scenarios.

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And it really is just like reverse rage bait where you’re getting people to be angry with you versus against you. Or it’s like, yeah, fuck the way that this works. I’m like, but you didn’t solve the problem for anybody. You just put this thing on the table. Yes, of course everybody deal with that. like, and then what? And I feel like I was trained to be a corporate monster to then be like the most helpful corporate monster that’s humanly possible.

That’s really fun to be able to think through, which is why I get tripped up over, well, the opening hook sucks and all these other things. And like, how do I really build that Mr. Rogers of corporate America persona in the right way? And then be able to like literally have all this fumbling around and hit a switch and be like, no, now it’s like really fucking for real. Like Tim just dropped these three videos that do X, Y, and Z. And like, I’ve never thought about things this way. And I’ve never thought about my career this way.

Holy shit, I’m now lethal with email for the best reasons, like all those kinds of things. This is why you need to know a P &L. It’s all the reasons why an account like Harvard Business Review on Instagram would have millions of followers and fucking terrible engagement. And it’s brilliant stuff. Yeah. It’s not package right. It’s not package right. The storytelling’s not that. And for a lot of my stuff too, I would say it’s not package right.

It needs to be packaged differently. And that’s kind of the fun in it too. Like, exact thought that I said popped into my head getting out of the cab to come here. And I don’t know why that in particular popped in my head, but I was like, ooh, that could be a series where it’s like, here’s this brilliant thought that I’m going to make cool and digestible for you. And then again, you just kind of swim through all those thoughts. But that’s kind of the beauty of growth overall is understanding where your flaws are. And just the same way a chef would be like, ooh, I’m going to cook this one

simple-ass dish for the 10,000th time to try to make the perfect burger or cookie or pasta or whatever and get so good at it that it’s like, you know, the clouds part kind of thing. It’s really what I want to do with the perspective and the helpful tidbits that I know can have that triggering effect that you noted. Yeah, I mean, if the goal is to be one of the best at this,

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It reminds me of that documentary, Giro Dreams of Sushi. Yes, 1,000%. Dude, I watched that on Silence. Where was I on way to? It must have been, I’ve been traveling more this year than ever in my life. I think I was on my way to Vegas for the last F1 race I was there.

And I had it on in silence in the background. Never watched more. I haven’t watched movies or TV in a decade plus at this point. That’s one of the things I had to cut out to find time to do all these things. And even just watching it in silence, you were 1,000 % spot on. The obsessive nature that I just, for some reason, I admire so much that you can have this thing. Love of the game. It’s love of the game. And it’s this deep, deep.

deep appreciation for all the elements that go into it. And it’s not just surface level. Then the potential within that too is just phenomenal. Like it just, feels good for some reason as well. And I really hope that a lot of people can find what that thing is. They don’t necessarily have to get that obsessed, but like find that thing is, or at least have a deeper sense of connection to the parts and pieces and its meaning. Cause again, that could be like, you know, whoever came up with this

crazy ass DJ booth and the design went into it, right? But like, those are the things that can connect you to, connect you from simply noticing something to, I can dedicate my life to this thing. Do you think there’s a way that you can train that obsession? Absolutely. Maybe through the act of appreciation? A thousand percent. A thousand percent. First you have to notice it. Yeah. Literally.

90 % of appreciation is just noticing something. Your ability to be curious about it sounds super obvious. The more you can ask questions about it, it is quite literally the path. And this is why I get so excited about it almost to a certain extent, like, feels unfair that in a lot of regards, because you look up appreciation and there’s not a lot out there on it. Fuckloads on gratitude. There’s a million self-help books on a million different topics. Appreciation is a g-

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deeply underutilized and underappreciated topic. And it actually made it difficult to write about. Because people kept being like, my editor was like, where’s your research? I’m like, nobody’s researched this. I finally found this one professor at Rutgers who dedicated most of her career to the topic of appreciation. And it was this light bulb moment. Literally, I was on a flight to Berlin. This is true story. I was on a flight to Berlin back in September.

And I started laughing my ass off because I had this printed out copy of her research. And I’m like, there’s no fucking way that after all this time, this was like five years from going from an Instagram text only story in 2018, where I had the worst day in my career and I get distracted by a manhole cover. And I’m like, I’m the dumbest motherfucker on the planet from going from like all of these super overwhelming thoughts to...

a manhole cover. Monkey mind. And I’m like, what is this? And I was like, I’m addicted. You know, I’d said be addicted to appreciation is all it said. And it was like this mantra, but I was really saying it to be OK with no, like don’t hate yourself for the fact that you saw this and you noticed it. And this cascading effect literally is proven to increase your well-being on a day to day basis because you’re noticing more things around you. It’s.

the way that you can go from as a kid or even as an adult, from just seeing something sushi to becoming Jiro, to seeing a guitar, to then being obsessed with different type of strings and who’s the manufacturer there? And how did they come up with that design that creates that sound that can only be replicated when you make it on this kind of machine with this type of material?

It’s, it is the appreciation is the disposition that will create a cascading effect that is different from gratitude because gratitude is transactional and it will allow you to not only be more comfortable and confident in how you just approach the world because everything just becomes friendlier and more interesting, but it will also allow you to find the deepest passions that you may not have ever considered.

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There’s a, Reid Hoffman is the do-do found at LinkedIn. And I love this story because it has absolutely nothing to do with LinkedIn, but it shows how like this appreciation and obsession can just start in the silliest of ways. He was obsessed with this board game. I wish I remember the name of it. And he was so obsessed that when he found out where they made the board game, he went to the office at like 10 years old and like knocked on the door to be like, Hey, can I hang out here? Cause I love your board game.

and they kind of got sick of him hanging out at the... So they’re like, hey, here’s our new version of the game. Like, get out of here, kid. He went home and he obsessed over this thing and found like flaws in the rules and ideas to like upgrade the gameplay. And over the course of a weekend, went back and handed it back in, was like, hey, here it is with changes. At first they’re like, this kid again. They’re like, holy shit, this is actually really, really, really smart. Right? So multiple levels of appreciation there. Like his appreciation for the game overall.

this like love of the fact that it was right around the corner, appreciation for the opportunity that he actually had this new thing in his hands, what he could potentially contribute to it. And it just simply goes from noticing something to potentially coming like a little obsessed with it to then understanding what an opportunity that really wasn’t even there in the first place could present itself to. And then how that can take you in a completely different direction.

with your entire life. And for me that was, ended up being content, I guess, at like the highest level, but there’s just all kinds of things around us all the time. Like you could literally just like, it’s, the addiction is and not being able to unsee it. Light stands, microphones, cameras, jewelry, wearable technology, like all of this shit is super deep once you actually just pause.

And it just starts with noticing. And noticing is a gateway to appreciation. And appreciation is a gateway to all of these things. RuneQuest was the game. Yes. Thank you. Would you say that appreciation is then the precursor to gratitude? would you separate the two? Precursor is a good word to use. And I love the way that this professor from Rutgers described it.

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When the two get conflated, it’s like calling everything a bird, where appreciation is kind of like the bird. Like appreciation is around us. Gratitude is a very specific kind of bird, which allows us to then have this easier way to separate the two. The way I like to describe it is that appreciation is foundational. It can just be everywhere all the time. Gratitude is transactional. Makes gratitude sound weird, but like. What do you mean by that?

you’re getting something in return. you’re using gratitude in the incorrect way, you’re being grateful for things that are actually not like doing anything. You’re just using the word incorrectly. What’s an example of the two separate? Tell me something that you’re grateful for. Grateful for this conversation. So within this conversation, are, in theory, then you’re getting knowledge from it, or you’re getting an opportunity to share it with other people.

You can also appreciate the conversation. They go hand in hand in my brain. They do. But are you grateful for the microphone?

I mean, it’s a stretch. I appreciate the microphone because it’s a tool towards the thing that I want to do, which then I get gratitude for. So light, again, this thing.

foundational versus transactional. And in the same way that gratitude can bring you that kind of like joy or whatever, however you would describe it when people say practice gratitude, when you’re practicing gratitude, you’re practicing the recognition of when things are happening to or for you that you need to be thankful for.

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When you were practicing appreciation, you were simply practicing the art of noticing the world around you and the ability to see the good in whatever it is. Those are super distinct when you get that crystal clear about it and can add this amazing layer to everything all the time. The ability to appreciate the New York City subway, yes, you can be grateful for it was on time, it didn’t smell like shit.

whatever the thing may be. But if you can appreciate the complexities of it overall, then you can appreciate the fact that, the signal system is super fucked up. But how difficult is that? Like, it’s a stretch to say, you know, I’m so grateful for the sign. But I can appreciate the fact that, like, this is an iconic way to display font. It is marquee personified.

And somebody at some point had this brilliant idea to miniaturize them. Right? So gratitude is transactional. The reason why I like saying that is because it makes it more distinct in that don’t forget you’re looking for these distinct things to show gratitude for, where appreciation can just be this always on element that will literally increase your well-being. Interesting.

Yeah, it’s a bit of a wisp of a concept in my brain that I can separate the two and need to think about it a bit more, but I can see the distinction. It’s like appreciation is just the act of doing it. It’s more of a doing than a getting. Yes, a thousand. And especially when you start to use the context around yourself as well, if you can appreciate yourself a bit more, again.

proven to increase well-being. And the study that this professor did put this up against like your big five attitudinal traits and things like race and background and like where you came from in society and those types of elements. And gratitude is again, is an element of appreciation. But like when measured up against these other things that bring you joy, appreciation was the one thing that was a.

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constant variable that would consistently increase your well-being just because you’re literally looking at the world a different way. The other way I’ll describe it real quick is, you know what a cognitive bias is? But explain. Cognitive bias, there’s, if you Google cognitive bias, there’s probably about a dozen that are like the core ones. I think there’s like 50 or 60 in totality. But there are these really interesting little quirks.

that people can gravitate towards that when they see something or something happens, they will react in a certain way. Basically, illogical reactions from the human experience. Illogical, some are like seemingly logical, but it’s like when somebody screws up your coffee or somebody does something nice for you, there can be both good and bad, Appreciation can be a layer that sits on top of all cognitive biases.

And when you can see things through this filter, when it’s literally kind of baked into your mindset, you’re going to steer your cognitive biases towards a more positive perspective. even when your inherent traits or just things that the world around you is going to make you feel or think, you’re going to be pointing them in a better direction. is the reason, appreciation is the reason why two people would look at the weather and one person would say, fuck, it’s raining for the third day in a row. And the other person is going to be like,

I think this is good for the reservoirs. And that can make a huge, huge appreciation is the, because it is the act of noticing and looking for the good, it is literally that meme where there’s two people sitting on a bus and one person is looking out towards the mountain that they’re up against. That’s like dark, stark rock and is like, the world is terrible. And the other person on the other side of the bus is looking out at the view and is like, wow, it’s a beautiful day.

So what makes a difference between those two people with the weather example? Like, what is it at its foundation? It’s so complicated. If you were to distill it as best as possible. distilling it as best possible can come across as being a dick. See where it goes. I’m curious. It comes a few things. I would say, one, to be very aware that not everybody has

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all the choices at their disposal relative to how they see the world. What does that mean? Some people need professional help. Some people might need medication. Some people can’t choose to have a choice. Most people can choose to have a choice. And I think that goes back to what my mom said to me in regards to like, you got two choices in life. You can choose to have a good time or you can choose to have a bad time. Surface level.

sounds way easier said than done. Again, can even sound pretentious in some conversations, which is why I very quickly gravitated towards that should help my mom get through alcohol addiction. That helped our family get through stage four melanoma, multiple bouts of horrific elements of cancer for both my parents. And literally when you go back through the course of humanity and when people have been up against some of like the worst shit that’s ever happened.

Survival has come down to just figuring a way through it. So not everybody can choose to have a choice. But I think the difference between those two people on the bus, if they’re basically both of the same general mindset and perspective, is first choosing to understand that they have a choice and then choosing a certain direction. You can think in a lot of ways, I don’t have a choice.

I had to do blank. I will never forget. This is going to sound like a super strange story as I get into it. I was working at ESPN. We had this company offsite because the marketing team, the sales team weren’t getting along. And they brought in this guy to basically be somewhat of a diplomat to help everybody get along better. And he was talking about this element of choice and how he goes into these circumstances and he talks to people in companies and is like,

you guys don’t understand how often in life you are choosing which side of the bus you’re sitting on and what you’re seeing. And apparently this is the story he’s telling. He’s like, and so I’m giving this talk at another company and somebody stands up in the back and is like, this is bullshit. Like I went to Vietnam, I killed people and this was because my government drafted me and sent me over on a plane and gave me a gun. tell me how that’s a choice asshole. It was like basically a challenge. And apparently,

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per this person’s story. gets halfway through that and he goes, shit. He goes, I may not have liked my choices. I guess I could have chosen to go to jail. I guess I could have chosen to go to Canada. I chose to go to war. I chose to get on the plane. I chose to accept the gun into my hand and pull the trigger and kill another person. And apparently this person literally has, and who knows if this was just a story to help explain

why you don’t as often as possible understand the choices that you have. But I think the difference between those two people, if given similar circumstances, and potentially in more scenarios than we may give ourselves credit for, there’s choosing that we have the choice in the first place, and then the ability to choose the good side of things. I don’t have to go home after this. I don’t.

I could literally get into free, you know, people are like, yo, free will. I’m going to do how many amazing videos for people like free will. I ran a random marathon on a Tuesday afternoon. I went and ate 500 ham. It’s choice. Accepting the fact that you have a choice, and it’s why a lot of people actually look up to other people, yo, they actually bought the bus and renovated it and then traveled across whatever. They did the thing. And it’s because.

even though it seemed super logical, they were like, this is kind of a real choice. Like this is, if I actually go towards that door, if I get in the cabin, I go to JFK and I show up at the thing and I buy the ticket and I get on the plane, if I have my ID, like I can actually do that. But so many people get stuck in, I’m sorry, I was a dick in that meeting because I didn’t have a choice because my boss was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, that’s bullshit, right? Like, especially for those kinds of things.

And that last example that I gave is like where a lot of people get stuck and they’re just like, fucking then all of a sudden, the years go by and they don’t give themselves a chance to understand that they had a choice to begin with. So again, big monumental things, health, mental health problems are super, super, super real. Professional health is very needed for a lot of people. There’s also a lot of people that are just like,

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I’m going to kind of use these reasons for the choices that I’m making versus understanding that I have a choice in the first place. And I genuinely feel that a disposition of appreciation can help you have a better day to day, not be so hard on yourself, and give yourself a better opportunity to make whatever you want to do with your time that you have. So appreciation.

is a precursor to kindness by the sounds of things, if I’m connecting the dots. How can you see kindness scaling in a world of polarity, us versus them, profit over everything, and disconnection? Where to begin with that one? I think it’s because appreciation has this inherent capability to give benefit to the doubt. I think that it starts there. Is that important? I think it’s critical.

I mean, how often are we like, why this person cut me off? why did this person react that way? And it’s all day, every day, where we are potentially assuming the worst or we’re not assuming the best. That is going to impact our mood. It’s going to cloud the way that we see other people. It’s going to stop us from learning. It’s going to stop us from being curious. It has just an.

awful cascading effect. And in the simplest of ways too, right? In ways that you feel very justified of doing in the moment. Again, person cutting you off, took my seat, person’s in a rush, things where you feel wronged. Appreciation can help you constantly, almost to an annoying degree for yourself, be like, that...

I hope the person’s not late for their meeting. And it’s that difference between being stuck in traffic and seeing the sirens a mile ahead and being like, I can’t believe this is happening right now, to I hope that person is OK, or I’m super glad that I’m not in an ambulance right now. That can have a massive, massive, and it will give you, this is the wild part about it. And I try to touch on this in the TED Talk, which was

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It was a fascinating experience. Eight minutes, no teleprompter, no notes. Tough, man. Holy shit, was that hard. A lot of practice, I’m guessing. my god. And I still feel like I got like, I gave myself like a C plus, B minus on the performance, but that’s another story. The thing I tried to hit on to your question is you will use that like kind of like demon of yours in the office, right? Kind of common.

scenario to bring up. If you take the time to appreciate that person, even at the highest level, it will come across as though you’re kowtowing to them or that you are letting them walk all over you. When in fact, that will actually give you the upper hand in the relationship. We think and we’re trained to believe that the more strong willed and defensive, if not offensive that we are with people.

That’s the way to have control. That’s the way to create the dynamic that is in our favor. When we can give benefit of the doubt so that we can understand and appreciate the other person more, it allows us to show up where that person needs to be met, which is going to make them more open, which is inherently going to give you the upper hand in that dynamic. It is the absolute Trojan horse

of any type of relational dynamic, especially one that you would want to control for your own betterment, as long as to what you said earlier, as long as you’re not a dick about it, as long as you’re not doing it for like, you can create these incredible dynamics that will catapult things for yourself and for larger groups of people. It’s like the definition of diplomacy. You’re able to find

And it’s not even like finding common ground. You can find common ground once you understand the other person’s ground. You already know your own ground. If you’re like, that person’s got to figure out my ground, that may never happen. You’re choosing then to waste time. Like, is where, especially with myself, I would get like viciously aggressive with how much I could utilize this. Or be like, I am wasting time now.

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When I’m waiting for this person to say sorry to do this other thing, like I am fucking this up. I might deserve that. I’m sorry. I might be in the right here, but that doesn’t matter. And especially once the outcome in a business setting dictated what happened for other people on my team. That’s when I got ruthless with myself against it. I’m like, even if somebody on my team was like, Hey, I’m going to the boss because of this problem. So I’m supposed to go to the other person’s boss. It’s then supposed to think.

even in situations where like, why aren’t you being like, why aren’t you calling them up and yelling at them? I’m like, because that’s not going to do you any good. It’s now my job to make the situation like actually better. So for all of the problems, all the world problems that you just described, I believe, and this is why they give out, you know, Nobel peace prizes and all that kind of shit. And for some of the most remarkable things that have ever happened over the course of humanity,

And I’m putting like warfare aside to the second. But even in those cases, you need to like understand and appreciate the other side so much so that you can fuck them up by like doing shit that they didn’t expect. Because you’re like, wow, you know me so well, or you know like what we were going to do. The deeper you can understand and appreciate somebody else and your ability to meet them where they need to be met in most normal circumstances gives you the upper hand in the relationship to a way in which you can then control the dynamic.

And as long as you’re able to put your ego enough to the side so that you don’t feel like you’re being

wronged in the situation because that literally is just ego, you will be able to move mountains. So many people, especially in the first early years of me making TikToks, there were a lot of people, yes, there were a lot of people that were amazing and super kind and really encouraging with everything I was doing. And a lot of people that were like, you are just going to die at your desk doing all of this shit for all these other people. Look at all these meetings I’m in. Look at all these agendas I’m making, all this kind of stuff.

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I was meeting people where they needed to be met. I was fine to be the one of my peers that would say, hey, it’s going to be a lot better for all of our teams if we meet every single Monday morning at 9 AM and have a conversation about getting on the same page so that we don’t get into Wednesday afternoon and look like a bunch of scattered assholes and then our teams are like butting heads as it always happens in a matrix organization. Let’s get together.

And I’ll make that agenda every single fucking Sunday, year after year after year. And I’m not even going to say, here’s the agenda tomorrow, because I don’t want anybody to be like, yo, why is Tim trying to be the boss? I will literally call it suggested topics. And I will make sure it’s in your inbox an hour before we have the meeting so that I look like I’m playing the role of the admin, but I’m actually being the leader in this group right now. And it’s not easy. It’s not easy.

But if you’re willing to at least consider that your ability to appreciate somebody else more than they may appreciate you is going to give you the upper hand in the relationship. It is going to give you more humility and humanity. It is going to give you a better understanding of how the world works. It’s going to give you more appreciation as to what your life circumstances are. And it’s going to give you an opportunity and the energy to make more of what you have.

If you see a homeless person on the subway and you’re like, fuck, and yes, of course, if there’s feces or like there’s disgusting shit happening, like it’s an inconvenience. But I realized this by walking past shit loads of meth addicts at the subway station that I use the most often. Under what circumstances could I reasonably look at anybody stuck in that position in life

and be like, I 1000 % would have done better with their life circumstances up to this moment. No fucking chance. Child abuse, mental illness, God knows whatever else, one thing that went wrong at one point, they just set off this horrible cascading series of events. So don’t judge. We should be constantly curious about all of the things that go into all of us.

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So judging, actually think, could be a super useful tool. But once we start to judge for vindication versus just judge for awareness, we’re fucked. But if we can be constantly curious and be like, that’s so interesting. I wonder why he likes his shirt that size. If I have more questions about your choice in jewelry versus judging somebody about the choices they’re making from an aesthetic perspective, I’m going to be smarter.

I’m going to be more well-rounded. I’m going to be kinder. I’m going to have better conversations. But the people that are just like, yo, fuck that guy in his stupid-ass shoes or whatever it might be. I mean, every once in a while, you got a vent and you got to say some stupid shit. give yourself the benefit of the doubt to give others the benefit of the doubt. Especially when it comes to your career, you will do the cr-

You will have much healthier and much more satisfying relationships. You will be happier because you’re not carrying so much of a burden. It will feel like you’re carrying more of a burden. You’re carrying a different kind of burden in such a fulfilling way that like I can’t, it’s the reason why, what I’m describing right now is the reason why, as awkward as it could have been when I left that job, it’s the reason why they send me out the door.

and everybody was legitimately in tears that we were saying goodbye. And they sent me out the door with one of the greatest TikToks in the history of TikToks, which was basically like everybody in the entire department contributing to replicating one of my TikToks in a way to say goodbye to me. That could have easily been, hey, weird asshole that’s taping everything in your office all the time. Get the fuck out of here. This has been the strangest thing for us to have to deal with over the past few years. But it wasn’t.

because I appreciated everybody so genuinely, genuinely, genuinely, and they felt it. And the way that that can then comes back to you is indescribable. Yeah. So I like the framework of appreciation. And I just want to quickly touch on, if you could sum it up, what the key techniques and frameworks of appreciation are, especially through difficulties. Yep. It is.

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Through difficulties, we start with through difficulties, it’s accepting that you might have a choice. Are you giving yourself a chance to choose in the first place? That might be the hardest part. Are you actually giving yourself a chance to have a choice?

From there, it’s what are your choices, right? And that all starts with just appreciating yourself. If you can truly appreciate yourself, you don’t have have gratitude for yourself. You don’t might not necessarily have to love everything about yourself. Just appreciate who you are. That is your strengths and your weaknesses without denial or blame. Then the ability to understand that you do have a choice.

If you can then be comfortable with that, that’s enough. That can literally put you in a position where you’re like, OK, cool. What can I really do about this thing when I’m in a shit place? When it comes to just the day-to-day stuff, it’s the simple act of noticing. Literally, we just fly through all of these days. There was a study that I read as I was doing research for this stuff that like 48 % of the time, most people are not where they actually are mentally.

and it’s making us unhappy. Apparently, it’s this specific inherent trait just for humans. Like hippos aren’t doing hippo shit, and they’re like, man, I wonder what’s going to happen next Tuesday when that meeting pops up, or if that storm comes. They’re not thinking about that. I’m just here doing hippo shit. Like dog staring at the wool for an hour. Totally. But we have this.

Constant draw especially in the modern world and devices and all that kind of shit But like I don’t even think that it’s just because of phones or anything along those lines You see those old pictures of everybody staring at their newspaper like mad close in the subway. It’s the same thing. Mm-hmm our inability to be in the moment is Taking us away from appreciating things Because at its core the simple step the most the easiest takeaway for anybody listening

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is just the act of noticing. That can put you on a path to having a deeper relationship with everything in your life in ways that will genuinely bring you more joy, that are gonna make things more interesting, that is going to allow you to give benefit of the doubt, that is going to allow you to see things in a deeper level, and it’s going to allow you to problem solve more for yourself as well.

because you’re going to understand the choices that you have to get yourself in a position to build the thing, try the side hustle, go for the marathon, whatever that thing might be that’s like, that would be cool if, but then the if comes from understanding that you’ve got the choice about the if, but have you even chosen to have a choice in the first place or did you just pigeonhole yourself for no good reason?

that goes into a deeper rabbit hole of like limiting beliefs and gremlins. And I’ve got almost too much now in my brain from like executive coaching and emotional intelligence coaching and all these like classes that I’ve taken and all the research that I’ve done. But if you’re not in a good place, is the ability, it both starts with like understanding if you’re allowed to give yourself a choice. And then for just the day-to-day stuff, it’s just the element of noticing, cause not being present is

something that is just inherently sucking the joy, the potential of joy out of any moment on any given day. So wrapping this up, what would you want your daughter to learn about appreciation and how to live a good life based on watching you? god, that’s a super important and very difficult question. At the same time, too, almost feels redundant based on what immediately comes to my head. What comes to your head? Benefit of the doubt.

What do mean? To give anything and everything benefit of the doubt. How are you showing her that? By the way that I respond to people, by the way that I react to any given circumstance throughout the course of a day, by the way that I might intentionally say out loud when somebody cuts us off what benefit of the doubt sounds like and looks like, what an authentic conversation sounds like around being

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respectful and appreciative of what we have and why it’s so interesting, not just like, hey, eat all the food on your plate, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, using different ways to contextualize that so that it feels more relevant based off of the people that had to touch the food before it made it to our plate and the work that goes in at the farm or the wherever.

and the chain of events that goes to the thing versus just being like, eat your food. It’s in the intentionality of creating storytelling, a greater, more interesting narrative that’s gonna cast a better light on everything around her on a consistent basis so that she inherently starts to see joy without even considering the alternative.

that she sees how I treat every human being on the planet, regardless of circumstances, that I will go out of my way to think a thought out loud that shows her how I’m trying to be more understanding or curious, especially under duress circumstances, showing her why you don’t need to be afraid in certain circumstances and why you should be more guarded than others based off of

giving benefit to the doubt, but also being smart and harnessing your own energy in intentional ways. But really, I think it comes to the broader context for all the things in our lives. So that it’s not just putting away the dishes, it’s having the ability to have a machine that does these things for us that is pretty remarkable when you think about it.

that is not an easy thing to design if we had to do it ourselves, that has a collection of things that we have picked up throughout the course of our lives that mean something to us for a slew of different reasons and all have stories behind them. And we are fortunate to have, because not everybody has everything, and that even the act of simply taking the dishes out and putting them away is

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an opportunity to create like a broader movie scene that is a teachable moment that doesn’t have to be everything in the moment. It can just be like a single brick in a gigantic wall that is just how she sees the world and hopefully in like the kindest and most considerate way possible that also puts in her position of empowerment.

because she understands it’s her opportunity to pull those strings and she’s not stuck having to look at it a certain way because somebody else told her, including myself. But she has the choice and that more optimistic view that I’m describing is hopefully the first thing that she considers, but the consideration is hers and hers alone to have.

When you don’t give yourself the benefit of the doubt or when you don’t give the benefit of the doubt, how do you catch yourself and readjust? I will look at all of my, especially when I was in the office, I would do this like every day. It’s this, I have this deep, deep, deep fear of disappointing people. And I will think about where I might’ve disappointed others or myself.

and make sure that I pause for the consideration that goes into that. I will most often catch myself after the fact and be like, I could have been nicer about that, or I shouldn’t have been such a dick, or shouldn’t have. So it’s the consistent understanding that I will never be perfect at this. It starts right there. I will never be perfect at it. Almost hard stop. Therefore, what are the things that I could have done differently?

And why would that have been a better choice? And it’s why it’s a practice. It’s why attitude is a skill. Nothing is a skill if you don’t treat it like Jiro and sushi. Right? So it’s kind of like that, what is that very simple motion with the knife relative to the way that I use the tone of my voice, my approach, my facial expressions, all that kind of shit, knowing that that is a consistent work in progress.

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And especially considering the fact that like, as time goes on, like your opportunity to do that fully within your own control evolves, health changes, all that kind of shit too. like it is literally looking at the present day, like a weird athletic competition mentally. And how could I have hit that apex to use the F1 term even better?

so that I can make a better lap time, however you want to put that into an analogous situation, just simply based off of how I not only treated the world around me, but its broader circumstances, both for its benefit, but for my own as well. Because I think inherently that becomes like a two-way positive energy street. So wrapping up on this, one left of center question is,

What does the song Mothers Love by the Vernon Springs mean to you? It doesn’t mean as much to me as the version by Emma Hoy, who is the original composer of the song. To me, Vernon Springs just has a slightly different cadence to it that just kind of drips me into a different place. And what’s the context maybe around this song for people who don’t understand?

First of all, I suck at picking music for TikToks and Instagram reels because it’s so hard. There’s not enough instrumental music out there to allow me to do what I want to do. And there’s also all these limitations. If you can only use 90 seconds of this and TikTok is arguably the worst music library on the planet for this stuff right now. It’s like, here’s this random mass 60 seconds section of this song, Godspeed. But I came across that.

after another creator back in like 2020 was using some of Emma Hoy’s, and I don’t even know how to pronounce, I’m so embarrassed that I don’t know how to pronounce, like I could spell it out loud, but I can’t pronounce her name perfectly. Emma Hoy, I’m never gonna try it because I’m gonna botch it so bad. I know she is from Nigeria. Yeah, geez, how do you say this? Right? I know that she’s a Nigerian nun and she’s a world traveled pianist.

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has some of the most beautiful and most I would I always give Mariam Cabrú. Thank you. So thank you for playing that, because that proves it. That would have been tough. Right? And her writing capabilities are astronomical. You listen to a full album of her work, and it is wild how brilliant she was at the piano.

So I first stumbled upon her work in 2020. It was a vlogger who was based in Vermont that I could use a couple of her pieces and my friend, this guy named Ethan Glenn, who actually now has a clothing brand that’s here in New York called Every Other Thursday. He had used a piece of her work and a piece of content as well. And I just immediately became just enamored by it. Anything that was music only, no lyrics.

Piano in particular, highly recommend as a bit of a side note, the movie Shine, about the pianist David Helfgott. One of the most fantastic movies of all time, especially if you want a story about somebody who was not expected to do very much and then like did incredible things and went bat-shit crazy in the process.

And like once I found that and it made me feel a certain way, now it’s like a bit potentially too much on repeat. But when I hear the version by the Vernon Springs, it just makes me feel the way that I feel about the world around me. It like literally is like the perfect piece of music to be the background for just about anything.

just simply because of the delicate and fragile and beautiful nature of all the things all day long. That could be a New York Ranger hockey game at its most violent. That could be the New York City subway. Also the most violent. Sometimes that could be me finding a video of me holding my daughter when she was six months old. In my head, whatever reason, it goes with all of those things. So it is just like the.

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most beautiful, consistent background piece that I think allows you to take a deep breath and be like, everything is okay. And I’m allowed to see the most beautiful aspect of whatever the hell it is. It came on my classic Shuffled randomly and I was like, I don’t know this. That’s amazing. But now the problem is I can only think of you whenever it comes up.

So it’s now your song. I apologize, and I’m also proud of that. Well, I’m going to have to explore some of other music. So I like to usually wrap up the episode with some closing questions around the philosophy of life, even though we have explored this a lot. But I ask the same very similar questions to every guest. So maybe like one to two sentences, whatever comes to your mind. What view do you have or views that would make most people either scratch their head or potentially get angry?

that corporate America needs a salary cap.

that we are creating our own problems in this country just by not being nicer to each other.

that we’re choosing to be stuck in a lot of the shit that we are creating. There are quite a few solid ones. I mean, like, I’ve got some. The politics are inherently fucked up because we have to ask people for money before we even run for an office. Yeah, the incentive system is completely off. It’s the stupidest thing in the world. Hey, it to me in a job interview, and you ask somebody,

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So who qualifies you for this job? And their answer is, me 20 bucks and I’ll tell you. That’s literally how our fucking political system works. Australia’s capped. Everyone gets the same amount. That’s the way it should be. And it should be capped. I can go off on a massive tangent on this, but I’ll leave it at those. What’s one habit that you’ve implemented that has been life changing? Waking up mad early. Yeah, you’re crazy for that one.

Do you get six hours sleep? Approximately. Do you feel fine? Do you feel better on more? Because I need like eight, eight and a half. I don’t need it. Do you tell me that you’re sitting across the product of a decade plus of this? Definitely should have gotten more last night. But I’m an insomniac. I have been on Ambien for about a decade now.

I literally, while this shit, I want to go back to weird things. I don’t know if this would piss people off, but been on ambient for a decade now, I literally will chew it and wash it down with that swig of bourbon that everybody sees me take at the end of the day.

Does it help? Oh, yeah. Of course. I wouldn’t sleep otherwise. Like literally, I think it was like three or four years, I was falling asleep at 11 and waking up at 1. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So that’s where we’re very different. If you gave me a pillow on that floor, I’m out. So instead of saying waking up early, my answer to that will be becoming addicted to the outcome of small events throughout the course of a day. Because I could be waking up early, going for a run, being present in a meeting.

It’s not even the wins, is the, what is the outcome? The outcome could be a win or a loss, but it was the outcome and the fact that it did the thing in the first place to create the outcome. It makes sense. It makes sense. What’s an important truth that you know that most people disagree with you on?

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Oh, man. It’s so funny because for some of these, I’m like, do I sound like a dick by saying some of these things? I think it’s that choice piece. Yeah. I think you’re right. I think you’re right. We always have a choice. You might not like the choices. Totally. It might be two really sucky choices, but you always have an option. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing that I find really

painful about society as we currently see it is there’s a lot of blame and externalization of problems. it’s all good and well when you want to vent, but it doesn’t actually get you anywhere. And the fucked up thing part about that is there are the global exceptions for the most horrific things happening on the planet. But even in those circumstances, the reason why people persevere is because they are

making active choices to give themselves the best chance in ways that the most of us would fucking crumble around. And that’s part of what drives me nuts. And when I was getting really crazy about surviving in corporate America, and people were like, oh, how are you doing this? blah, blah. I’m like, I don’t have to run from a rocket today. Are you kidding me? If shit went down again in New York City, especially being somebody that was 24 years old when 9-11 happened, I was like, yo, I need to know where the exit is all the time when I’m in the subway.

Why is that person wearing a big-ass jacket? Those kinds of things. And so when you think about global perspective and true choice, be like, I would want to think that I have the wherewithal to be OK with a shitty meeting, because God forbid I ever had to run from a fucking rocket or be in just a absolutely destroyed city for God knows what reason. And there’s human beings that are having to deal with that right fucking now.

Like in a snapshot, I call this like weaponized perspective against myself. In a snapshot to just think of, choose any place that is going through some very difficult times on the planet right now. It’s like, how would I do in that circumstance?

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And then you compare it to like some of the shit that we have to deal with. And that would literally be some things would go into my head as I’m like, I have to go sit in an air conditioned office on the 40th floor of a building and potentially deal with some assholes that commute in from the Tri-State area. Woe is me, right? And then help me get my shit together real quick and to be super fucking sturdy and to be really comfortable and to be really, really, really thankful and appreciative and grateful and all of the things that like

This is where I am right now and I am choosing to be here. God forbid, I don’t make the most of it because what a fucking asshole I am if I don’t. Yeah. What’s one of the biggest things over the last two years or last few years you’ve changed your mind on?

important it is to really spend time with the people that matter the most. I think I’ve become that much more aware, especially as my parents get older, as my wife’s parents get older, and just the true enjoyment and that again going back to the choice that like, wow for all the things from like, we’re doing this, I could be doing that, like are those types of things that

really taking things to a next level relative to enjoying the moment. I think I’ve been good at that, but I think over the past couple of years, I’ve had to fundamentally shift to how like critical that actually is. And I’ve also had this like stopwatch in the back of my head of my dad was 52 when he got stage four, I’m 48 now. And so from the back of my head too, I’ve always been like, well, fuck, what if that happens to you when you’re 52? So I think that just like,

even deeper, deeper. So I don’t know if it was like a full seismic shift of like, wasn’t and now I am, but just this entirely different level of, no, like for real, for real, like make the most of all this shit. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good place to wrap it up. So is there anything you’re excited about at the moment that you can let the listeners in on? I’m super stoked for the TED Talk to be on YouTube.

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It’s on Ted’s website right now. do this. I don’t, I don’t know the full process behind the sequencing, but it’s on their website right now. But I’m super stoked for that to hit YouTube because I’m going to push. will, I will ask listeners and watchers and viewers and followers for like two big things. One is watch the Ted talk. I didn’t, I wasn’t perfect with it, but the message is there. I know that it’s resonating. I know that it will help.

And then the second one will be when the book comes out, I will want people to go read it because I genuinely believe that that will help shift the perspective that anybody has to make the most of the one life that they get. So TED Talk coming out on YouTube and the other ones several months away. But overall, I’m stoked to get home for dinner on time. I’m stoked to make the most of the encyclopedia of corporate knowledge in my brain that I still feel like I haven’t scratched the surface on.

I’m stoked to be able to use clips to this podcast to be able to help tell the ongoing story of who I am and why I am deserving of the trust and the grateful gift that I’m given of people’s times on a consistent basis. Nice. And where can people find you? TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, all under my name.

Spell your name out for this moment. T-I-M-M-C-H-I-U-S-A-N-O. I was that boring person that was like, I’m just going to spell out my whole name, even though my last name is a bit clunky. Maybe if I would have gotten in a little bit earlier, I could have just owned just at TMC. That’d be nice. Yeah. Nice, man. And my last question for you is a nice little easy way to round this out is what do you think the reason where all here is?

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think it’s just to find happiness and do good with the time that we have. However, we define that for ourselves. Nice. Thanks, Tim. Thanks, brother.

And if you enjoyed this episode, please go to YouTube search that one time with Adam Metwally, click subscribe and I’ll see you next week.