Eric Jeng: 2,000 Strangers, Real Connection, and the 80/20 Presence Rule
2,000 strangers later, what actually builds connection.
I just sat down with Eric Jeng.
NYC street interviewer and filmmaker who’s held 2,000+ candid conversations with strangers.
In this episode you’ll learn
Upbringing shapes 70–80% of emotional patterns—and how to spot it fast.
• Three‑move opener to connect anywhere: eye contact, assume rapport, curiosity. (02:38–07:10)
• The 80/20 presence rule for honest, productive conversations. (04:50)
We dive into the details later in the conversation.
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
00:00 The Mystery of Humanity
02:38 Judgment and Connection
05:20 The Journey to Self-Love
08:22 The Impact of Upbringing
11:04 Navigating New York’s Chaos
13:54 The Balance of Love and Use
16:34 Forgotten Voices of Society
28:26 Exploring Personal Growth Through Connection
33:19 Confronting the Unknown: Encounters in Afghanistan
37:26 The Nature of Human Connection in a Divided World
48:30 Shifting Perspectives: The Evolution of a Content Creator
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Here’s the full transcript:
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (00:00.141)
If you could put one sentence on a billboard about humanity after 2000 conversations, what would it be? Life is a mystery, people are a mystery. So just have fun with it all and take it one day at a time. After, you know, over 2000 conversations, you’ve noticed some common themes. Their upbringing and their relationships, their parents dictates like 70, 80 % of this person’s emotional well-being. Some of the interviews you’ve had of some very unique people. Folks living out on the street or folks working in an adult film industry or Taliban members holding AK-47s.
And at some point I was like, they didn’t do you guys fighting the war? Like one of them came over and showed me videos of like, and then when I saw that I was like, shit, this doesn’t feel so good. I couldn’t tell this guy want to shoot me or want like. Welcome to that one time with Adam Metwally, the podcast bridging the gap between health, hustle and happiness. We are at Podcast for a while in New York City and I’m with Eric Jang.
a street interviewer based in New York City who has interviewed over 2000 people and also a storytelling filmmaker. So Eric, if you could put one sentence on a billboard about humanity after 2000 conversations, what would it be? You know, I get asked this question a lot. People are like, what have you learned about humanity? And like, when I meet other street interviewers, I’m like, I want to ask them this question too. And I think the difficulty in answering this question is that
Humans are just very complex creatures. So it’s difficult to pin down one specific thing. We’re beautiful and we’re not beautiful and we’re lovely and not lovely. Life isn’t always easy, but there will be a happy ending. We all die. So basically the whole human experience is just contradictions. I feel like because it’s difficult for me to see the whole picture.
I don’t know. What’s the whole picture? What do mean? So what I do when I’m talking with someone is I’m trying to understand them. I’m like looking at their history, how they were raised, any traumatic events that happened to try to understand why they do the things they do now or any hiccups. And they’re telling me the best that they know. And then I’m analyzing and filling in the gaps the best I can. That’s still not the complete picture. I think there’s much more that we don’t know than we know. Dang. I’m, I’m sidestepping the answer, I think it’s,
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (02:26.062)
Life is a mystery. Maybe that’s what the billboard would be. It’s just like life is a mystery, people are a mystery. just have fun with it all and take it one day at a time, one step at a time. Yeah. Have you found any consistent mistakes that you made when you were trying to connect with people in these interviews that you had to correct? Although I pride myself, or not pride myself, but see myself as someone who is relatively non-judgmental, I will still notice myself being judgmental towards someone in conversation.
I think to a certain extent it’s unavoidable because we judge in others what we judge in ourselves and I judge myself quite a bit. But I’m getting better at being aware of the ways in which I begin to color this person in my mind with feelings of who they could be or what kind of person they are or assigning a certain moral value to something they’re saying. What I’m noticing is that
the more I can just take this person as a blank slate and allow them to come out, the better the conversation will be. And I’m all about trying to have better conversations so that the content’s good and the video’s good. The moment I begin to say, this is this kind of person, I then put them in a confinement and that prevents them from showing me, like allowing me to see other sides of them. So, but that’s actually not always a bad thing because sometimes,
I’m meeting people very quickly. So I do have to assign certain like judgments on them or assessments, assumptions on them quickly. But it’s like to hold those assumptions lightly. So yeah, I guess what I’m learning is to not put my own stuff on other people when I’m talking to them. That was a long way away of sometimes I need to verbally understand what I’m trying to say. Yeah, it’s not letting my own inner world paint what I’m.
what the other person is giving me. Let me just see them for who they really are and not my own insecurities or judgments or fears. How do you turn that off? A good day, a good night’s sleep really helps. Really? Being in a good space. Yeah. And just be present. Yeah. Focus on your breath. When I’m interviewing, I try to keep my attention at like 80 % presence, 20 % strategizing on what’s going on or where do I want to take the conversation and what kind of story this could be building.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (04:50.702)
And I find that the more I do this, the more it’s it’s harder to stay present because I’ve heard a lot of things before I can kind of see what’s going on. Whereas in the beginning I was just like, Oh, every conversation is fascinating. Every person is fascinating. Now I’m like, Oh, okay. I kind of this is this story and we’ll go here and we’ll go there. So, um, and I, and I’m okay with that. I think that’s part of the process of growing. And so now it’s like learning to really just come back to the presence because
A lot of times I realize I can strategize all I want, like more often than not, the best conversations come from me just being present and, and just trusting that that’s enough for the conversation. were some techniques you uncovered in regards to building presence as a habit? Just genuinely trying to love the other person. Trying to be curious. you’re thinking like, love this person. Or are you just like, is that a feeling? does that come out? A little bit.
It’s a little bit of like before I go on my session, just surrendering and being like, okay, whoever I talked to today, that’s who I’m to talk to. Whether the interaction goes poorly or positively. So there’s a little bit of surrender involved, taking them as they are. Techniques. There are times when the other person’s talking about something that I just, I lose my attention and I just don’t care. I think this happens. And then those moments, what I do is I’ll just stare into their eyes.
like very intently though, cause there’s like gentle staring where you’re just kind of like this. And then there’s like, I’m yeah, I’m really trying to like peer into their soul and, and, and like looking at how often they blink, how they move their eyes when they talk, like feeling them, I’m feeling them through their eyes. So that’s another way I stay present in the moment when maybe the conversations I don’t, I don’t find that too interesting. Do you then just get distracted?
and not really listen to what they have to say because you’re focusing so much on their eye contact. Yes, but I choose my spots because I know what they’re saying. I’m not going to use, maybe they’re on a tangent. And so I choose my spots. Yeah, I find it interesting that you have after, you know, over 2000 conversations, you’ve noticed some common themes of the human experience.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (07:10.318)
What are some lessons of those experiences that are pretty common among people? I think everybody’s just on a journey to love themselves, which is a little bit cliche statement, but like to find themselves to live life authentically and not in a way where they’re trying to get approval of others or get love. find that older folks do that better and they have like a groundedness and calmness about them, a non-striving sort of demeanor versus younger folks.
college, they’re still trying to figure themselves out. Their upbringing and their relationship with their parents dictates like 70, 80 % of this person’s emotional well-being. So parents has a huge impact, particularly when it is not a good relationship. And these people spend the rest of their lives trying to heal from that. It’s sad, but it’s also just the way life is because their parents went through something similar probably too. But yeah, I guess, you because what I’m doing is I’m looking for
wounds and I’m looking for like what is this person selling you the heal from that’s sort of my lens is I’m seeing what hurt people what why people are the way they are and and how can I kind of help to move forward I like this interesting I want to explore this old people non-striving energy that you mentioned is there a way to have that do you think there’s a way to have that energy while also striving
Like what’s in that that is useful? mean, the ego is a powerful motivator. Ego gets people to accomplish a lot of things. Especially when you’re maybe 20s, 30s, 40s and you want to build an empire, you want to achieve and that gets you to do some crazy things and sweat, blood and tears. And then maybe at some point you get to a point where you realize those achievements and those accolades didn’t get you the love that you wanted. And the love was actually in you all the time. You know, that kind of thing. At which point you lose a little bit of fire.
Cause you’re just like, and then maybe you just start creating more from a place of like peace and love and, and that’s great. And that’s beautiful. But maybe your outputs a little less. Is that what you’re trying to get at a little bit? I’m not necessarily trying to get at anything. I’m just curious as to whether it’s a useful, I’m just curious to tease out the ideas that you’ve found. anytime you’re, you’re living life from a place of love at all, these will be better from a not when you’re acting in front of place of fear. So, so the older people that you’ve spoken to generally.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (09:35.788)
have found a place of love, they’ve come to a place of peace? I think so. Otherwise they wouldn’t be talking to me. What makes you say that? I think the older folks, I don’t want to like slam on older people, but a lot of them are not as willing to speak on camera as younger people. But that’s also just probably because younger people are like grew up in social media and everything. I mean, they’re just much more peaceful with their life and they just care less about what other people think and they’re doing things out of.
just pure love and pure passion and pure interest. Whether that’s better for the world, I think it is. I don’t know. I feel like I read somewhere that the best entrepreneurs are the ones that have like a chip on their shoulder and a bad relationship with their dad or something along those lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it’s just like in the NBA, a lot of times these competitors, they need to get themselves like riled up. And so they’ll make up stories about other players that get themselves like,
you know, get that sort of juice going. Yeah. It is what it is. If you’re playing that kind of game, a competitive game, then you gotta do what you gotta do. Yeah, for sure. You mentioned you try and remove stereotypes and assumptions from your conversations. From your experience, when are those useful and when are they not? They’re useful when you have a time crunch and you have to, you know, I’m stopping people on Fifth Avenue and they’re in
they’re heading places. So I got to be like, okay, this is a professional looking person. They’re probably ambitious and they work hard. I get the feeling that they’re a little bit insecure about themselves because something, some, some twinkle in their eye. maybe it’s something from childhood. These are little things I’m, I’m piecing together quickly, right? You basically become a psychologist. Yeah. Psychologist, investigator, detective. And I guess that’s useful when you don’t have time. But if you have more time,
I think it’s not necessarily getting rid of stereotypes because sometimes the stereotypes are true. It’s more like holding your hypotheses lightly, holding your judgments lightly, making more assumptions and being like, okay, it could be this. because sometimes I consider myself a fairly intuitive person. So sometimes I am able to see things like 10 steps ahead that they haven’t really named yet. And that’s helpful to keep the conversation going. So I don’t want to completely deal with.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (11:57.538)
deal away with my ability to assess people. But I’ve also like, I’ll watch interviews later on during the edit and be like, man, I just had this thought about this person was this way and I was completely wrong. And I wish I had been more open-minded so that I could have seen them for who they are. I think the best bet is just to be, to stay open-minded and not stereotype and judge people. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So of all the people you’ve spoken to, what’s a key lesson that stands out?
in the challenges of living our modern lives and especially in something like New York. The energy of the city is very frenetic. And so what I think that creates in people is a difficulty in living in the present. So they’re either living in the past or worrying about something in the future. There’s always a tension between like what they want and what is.
So this could apply to jobs or this could apply to relationships or the inner world. Yeah, just being human in New York City is not easy, but it’s very fulfilling as well. So would you say that the chaos of New York is a net negative for a good life or a positive? I think it depends on what you’re looking for in that point in time.
If you’re in a period of soul searching and discovery, it’s great, because it’s going to break you down and help you put the pieces back together. If you’re in a place of, or actually where calmer energy would help you be your best self. I don’t know when that happens. Still looking for that one. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like life is best spent in a back and forth between those two energies. Yep.
Yeah, what’s, how long have you been in New York for now? Almost nine years. Are you feeling like it’s time to find some peace? It’s funny cause I’m starting to get those pings for the first time in my time here. I knew I was never going to stay in New York probably long-term, like for the rest of my life kind of thing. I’m originally from California Bay area, so much different pace of life. But I’m 38 and actually it has nothing to do with
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (14:14.094)
thought process, it’s more like in my mind, there’s a game being played in New York, which is achieve, create, be better, strive, hopefully from a good place. And I think there are seasons in my life where that was helpful, helpful energy to help me create, get something started from zero to something. But then at some point I’m like, is this really helping me find my voice or is my voice just being kind of influenced by
at the city because the city will influence you. You’ll see a lot of things. You’ll feel a lot of things. And at some point, at least now, maybe that’s why unconsciously unconsciously I’ve been traveling more. Yeah. Because I just my soul or my spirit has been like, hey, that frenetic energy was good to give you a boost and get you going. But like, what are you doing? Yeah. What are you about? Yeah. What are you about? Yeah. What are you about? Has that changed the more people you’ve interviewed?
I think the heart of what I’m about has always been the same because it’s just me and I just create from a, I just create. But as I get more followers or I miss the grind, you start to lose sight of yourself because you start thinking about the metrics, you start thinking about improving, you start thinking about getting better. And I don’t think these are bad things, but just it, it, I thought I had the other day was just like, am I, am I still loving people when I go and interview them or am I just using them for content? Trying to like,
pick out stories from them. answer did you come to? I think it’s always a spectrum between loving people and using people. I’m not a perfect human being, so there’s always going to be a part of me that’s thinking about what this person can do for me. Sure. But I’ve come to the realization that maybe it’s gone more a little bit to the using rather than the love. And so how can I bring that needle back a little bit more? And it may not be something that the other person feels.
They don’t know. They don’t know what I’m doing. They were just talking for 10 or 15 minutes. I know, I know. You what I’ve been trying to get back to is just like, I was asking you earlier why you do this. And you’re like, I just love the conversations. And that is true for me. But sometimes it isn’t, especially amidst the grind. Yeah. So how do I get back to that? Yeah, I guess the difference between you and I is I’m very particular with who I speak to. So I only speak to people.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (16:40.856)
where I know we’re gonna at least be a seed of interest personally. You’re playing the lottery. You don’t know what you’re gonna get. Yeah. And not just that because I don’t go into a specific topic in mind. So even if it’s someone that I kind of know, maybe they’re author or whatever, I’m actually not even trying to get into the work. I’m trying to get into their like essence and their personality and their heart. And I just never know.
what I’m going to find or people are even willing to reveal it. Do you think it’s become more of a more transactional now because there’s a whole, there’s a whole commerce behind it. The art is you’re moving away from it being art for art’s sake and it’s now a business. Definitely the pressures of, know, once you get to a certain level and you’re like, you don’t, never want to go below that. So you’re like, I got to keep creating at this, this level. there’s that constant pressure.
So if I go out and have three or four interviews and none of those interviews are usable videos, it’s not a good feeling. Especially when it’s like, this is my source of living and I need to create content. I don’t know, it’s like learning to accept those pressures and those fears and then being like, like rising above them or something, or letting them go or trusting God or trusting the world, trusting life. I don’t know. I’m still figuring it out. What’s your best guess at the moment?
the best approach to navigate this challenge that you’ve got right now with content and when it doesn’t work out versus when it works out and trying to go viral, et cetera. think rest, rest is probably good enough because I genuinely enjoy making videos and talking to people. So I was doing this when I wasn’t getting any views. So that natural desire is there. So I don’t have to worry about that. It’s just when,
your eyes are getting glossy and you’ve been at this for a couple of months and you just kind of get consumed by it. Stepping back, resting, coming back. And I think that will probably handle 80 % of it. And the other 20 % is just emotional maturity that happens over time. Sure. I want to dig into the forgotten people of society because I think you’re in a unique spot where you end up, some of the interviews you’ve had have some very unique people that 99 % of society wouldn’t even.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (19:01.026)
blink an eyelid about talking to. So what key themes have you noticed about the people who seem forgotten by society? A lot of times there’s the loveliest people to talk to because they have no aim. just, they got nothing to lose. They’re just talking. They’re just willing to share. I don’t know why I’m getting this thought, but I don’t know if I, I do talk to folks living out on the street or maybe folks working in, in the adult film industry or, or,
Taliban members in Afghanistan. I do like interviewing different people, but in a way I feel like we’re all kind of forgotten. And the moment I say that, just feel like it sounds kind of like, yeah. But I don’t know, we’re all kind of just forgotten. No one really cares about anyone. Like only non-forgotten people are like celebrities, but everybody else, you know, the investment banker walking down Wall Street, he’s forgotten. The actor who...
moves to York City or Broadway. I maybe they’re more noticeable, but I feel like in a way everyone just wants to be seen and everyone’s kind of not seen. I feel like specifically what I mean here is there’s a certain, you have a good friendship network. You have probably some family that you speak to regularly. regularly might go out and interact positively with a lot of people.
I know especially I do, know, great network. But there are some people in the world that don’t, they might have a job, they might loosely interact with some people in their job and then they go home and then they watch TV and that’s kind of their life. And most people don’t really interact with them in any meaningful way. And you would never know that they even exist because they’re just not.
connected with anything and they exist in probably large amounts. I feel like you’ve probably spoken to a few of them, which is the framing of what I meant with the question. And if you’ve noticed anything curious and interesting about that, I don’t know. I probably just that they’re probably more self-aware and smarter and more intelligent than you would think. And what makes you say that? Like you get into anyone’s thoughts.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (21:23.926)
As long as someone’s honest and willing to reveal, I feel like every person is pretty interesting. If they have a certain degree of self-awareness and they’re able to articulate the thoughts and they want to be a little vulnerable or honest, human beings are fascinating, very interesting creatures. so yeah. How do you know? Have you got any, towels in regards to when people aren’t potentially being honest? part of my
person is I tend to trust people pretty easily and take what they say at face value. And I’ve had some experiences now where I’ll interview someone and believe them and then only find out months later that they weren’t portraying themselves to be who they I thought they would be. Really? Yeah, like I was in Colombia once, met this woman, made a video. She had a very touching story. I fell for her. She’s also
Gorgeous. But anyways, I felt for her. And then it wasn’t until months later, I this random DM from this man who says she’s not what she she portrays herself to be. She actually has done X, Y, and Z to me. And he showed me text messages and stuff like that. And I was like, Oh, so if I got fooled on this one, how many other people have fooled me? What happened? She was a woman who would just take advantage of American expats and
Columbia. Well like sleep with them and then get money out of them. Something like that. Yeah, yeah. There’s a whole scene in Columbia of women, Colombian women using their beauty to their advantage. But more importantly, it just, I trusted her. I thought she was someone of character and then
You know, actually it happens a lot. I’ll meet people, hear their stories and think, I tend to try to see the best in people. So then when I don’t, it’s a little bit disillusioning or just like, like, right, human beings are imperfect, imperfect beings. Like I’ll talk to a charming man who lives on the street. And then we meet up a couple.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (23:38.72)
and get a story and he’s got a fascinating story. I don’t wanna say too much, I don’t wanna reveal who these people are to protect them. But I’ll get a charming story and then two weeks later meet up with him again and he’s drunk. And I’m like, he’s drunk and he’s a little bit rude or something like that. That’s why I said that people are complicated creatures. I have an interesting vantage point because I talk to them and I make the video, I see what...
I see what comments are saying snapshot in time snapshot on time. And then I have my own experience with them. So, this goes back to my Taliban story, like, there’s light and darkness in every person. And I would love to believe that everyone’s good and, but it’s not true. How do you differentiate between them though? What do mean differentiate between the people that
are probably not good and the people that are good, it’s harder than you think. Or is it not black and white like that? I think if they’re really not good, they probably just want to talk to me. They want to talk to a stranger who stops them on the street. Sure. It’d be very revealing for them. Unless they have something to gain from me, but they don’t know how many followers I have or what I do. So when I say good and bad, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t, I feel like those aren’t the best words to use. Yeah.
I think people are just human and then in certain situations, their shadow sides or whatever weaknesses will kind of come out. And over a long enough time span, you’ll see those shadow sides. But in the beginning, when I’m just meeting them for five or 10 minutes, see their stories and I feel compassion for them, but like they’re not showing me the whole picture. So I moved to New York 18 months ago now. you spoken to many people that have also
come here from somewhere else and made a big leap. And if so, what have you noticed? A twinkle behind their eyes. The city hasn’t beaten them down into a pulp yet. I mean, I think part of them loves it. They love the punishment. Yeah, it’s just people, a lot of people move here after relationship sending or looking for new job opportunities or looking for love. I moved here looking for a girlfriend. Have you found it? No. Had I known.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (26:03.448)
how hard it is to actually settle down with someone here in the city. But yeah, think it, I feel like everyone’s looking for something or they’re just kind of bored and they just want to like come to New York and I don’t know why, why do you do things you do? you, I mean, you are a hard worker and you’re
I feel like you’re grinding pretty hard from what I can see. You’re hosting events, you’re DJing, you’re doing this podcast, making videos, making content, which also from what I know from like Australia and like tall poppy syndrome is not like a normal Australian thing to kind of like hustle and grind. I don’t want to make a judgment on, but that’s kind of what I’ve heard. So am I doing it? I mean, I came to New York because I lived in a small city.
in Australia and I thought that was it. I came to New York and the city opened itself up to me and I saw a path where could actually live here and that just broke my paradigm of what my life could look like. Why did you want more? Whereas other folks who lives in your small town probably are probably happy. I didn’t, I was happy until I came here and then that broke. And you realized that you weren’t happy or that you were just comfortable?
Well, I realized, you know, I’ve always strived for things and I’ve always wanted to make something more than just the average. You’ve always wanted. Been like that for a long time. Yeah. I’ve always been curious about business and self-improvement and that’s played out in really positive ways over time. But yeah, I was pretty content with my hometown and
But then coming here and then experiencing New York and experiencing things that I thought were out of my realm of possibility of experiencing, you know, for other people, like more interesting people. And then I began to experience a lot of these things. And then I got back to Australia and I got back to my hometown and I suffocated. So I have to leave. I couldn’t stay there anymore.
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (28:25.274)
Was it a lack of opportunities Australia or it’s just like the culture or the mindset just wasn’t conducive to? Well, I think I grew a lot in a very short amount of time coming here. The first time I came in 2022, was, you know, I spent basically nearly three and a half months overseas between America, Tulum in Mexico, New York, and I just grew a lot.
And after growing, I pretty much felt like I’d outgrown what.
hometown could offer me. Yeah. so I would be settling. Yeah. I would be, I previously I wasn’t settling and then I realized I would be settling based on who I became in those, in those four months. Only four months. in those four months, basically it just gave you a higher degree of self belief and self esteem and a vision of like, I have more to offer than I thought. I’ll give you an example, right? When I was in Tulum,
I was exposed to a lot of content creators and from a small city and also in Australia, there’s not, there’s not big numbers with creators and people who have say like Instagram followings. There is a sports football players or there’s some like lifestyle content creator, usually a woman and they’re very, they’re very, they’re in bubbles. They don’t really talk to
Like I didn’t know anybody in my direct network. So I just thought that world was outside of my reach. And then I go to Tulum and then I start meeting these people that, you know, the top of my head, guy that’s like a handstand coach and has this whole yoga thing that he does and he’s got a million followers and I was like, wow, that’s interesting. And another girl who’s a fitness creator, who’s now a really good friend of mine and she had 300,000 followers and was like stunning and...
Metwally — That One Time Podcast (30:27.086)
really successful. And then another one that was a breathwork coach, super successful. And I just kept meeting all of these unique people, living interesting lives, having good social followings and businesses around them. And then on top of that, and that’s all going to well, but and then on top of that, they wanted to spend time with me because they saw value in our interactions. And that broke my paradigm. Because I realized I’m actually maybe much more.
then I think I am. And then I got to New York after that and it just blew up because this is city of everybody. And everybody who’s doing anything of interest generally comes to New York at least twice a year as well. So it really just built my confidence and allowed me to be comfortable just hanging in these environments with people who are highly functioning in whatever.
domain they’re in and knowing that I can also contribute and add value to their lives and their interactions and the conversations we have without needing to be an influencer or, you know, super wealthy or something. Did you play in like competitive sports in high school and stuff like that? Not well. Like I played sports, but I I was, I was mid tier. I was pretty mediocre at most things most of my life. If I’m hearing you correctly.
Like just by your association with people has opened you up. Yeah. That’s probably why, partly why you do this podcast. Well, yeah. I mean, the podcast came off the back of my first trip in New York after that. Yeah. It’s like, okay, let’s do this thing. Are you just curious of what your potential is and what you could possibly achieve or do you have a underlying aim as well? For the podcast?
No, for your life. Motivation? I mean, I’m just curious, really. I’ve kind of got, I got to a point previously in life where I had the means to, if I wanted to just sell everything and move to Bali, I’d be good for 20 years. It wasn’t about that. It was just fun. It’s just fun. It’s fun to talk to people.
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and learn and if I can make, as I said, if I can make a business and a career out of it. Great. So you’re just kind of, all right, let’s see. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, let’s see. I don’t know where any of this shit’s going, to be honest. But I’ve said to myself that I could see myself being an engineer, sorry, not being, being a podcast host or running a media business as a job, as a full-time job. I would love to get this.
to a point where it is my full-time job. Because it’s a project where when I leave these conversations, most of the time I leave more energized than when I started. And that doesn’t happen super often. And that doesn’t happen super often in things that you can also make a living out of. So that’s enough for me to explore it. And even if it doesn’t become a career and it doesn’t go that way, then.
learned a lot. Yeah, but I feel pretty confident. I think eventually it’s one of those things where just
just you can become the top 1 % in something. Like maybe you could become the top 1 % podcast by being a big creator, having like this very specific niche, or you can become the top 1 % by just grinding it and doing so much more than anyone else would to it. eventually you’re in a narrow band of people.
So would you say one of your gifts is like your ability to connect and network with people? Yeah, for sure. Because it sounds like that’s what kind of opened your eyes to your own potential. Yeah. And that was just something natural that you had. And you were in Tulum or New York. And just by your normal conversations, you had to these connections. And then where did that come from? Probably my mom. Yeah, so my mom is very social.
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and she would just talk to anybody and she would make friends with anybody. And I noticed that. it came naturally. I just, I think some people are just predisposed to certain behaviors. Like, you know, if you go to say a restaurant or a park and some kid just like some three year old kid just walks up to you and starts talking to you.
Have you ever had that experience? Not very often. But not very But at some point in your life, you’ve just had some kid that’s like, hey, what are you doing? Just breaks all social barriers. Hey, yeah. Off your plate. Yeah, what are you up to? I’m blah, blah, Yeah. And you’re like, where’s this kid’s mom? Yeah. And the mom’s somewhere having a conversation 200 meters down the road and barely noticed the kids walked off. Right. I was one of those kids. You were that kid. I was just that kid. Just quickly though.
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and they’ll also provide the podcast a small kickback. These are two very easy ways for you to support us as we continue to grow the podcast that we absolutely love doing. Thank you for your support and I’m back to the episode. There was something I wanted to talk to you about in the rapid fire that I’m so curious about before we wrap up. You mentioned that with one of the Afghani men from the Taliban,
that I was holding an AK-47, you looked into his eyes and there was just like a blankness. Yeah. What do you think was going on there? I think he was just as confused as I was as to why I was in that room.
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I feel like he was trying to read me. feel like when I look into his eyes, I see someone who has probably seen some things. Maybe he’s killed some people. Maybe he’s done some things. I don’t know. I’m not going to assume, but I couldn’t tell if he was angry at me. If he had spite or anger or hatred in his heart. Well, actually, I do know they were kind of pissed off because they had been
They had spent two hours looking for me. So I had gone on a night run because I was just like pent up for a week. And I was like, I got to go for a run. was was by nature. It was really beautiful. So I went out for a run and got lost. And so they sent like a 10 team Taliban squad like, go look for me. Because the worst thing that can happen to them is that an American tourist gets hurt or dies. And there was a huge body of water nearby. It was like a damn. So it was this weird tension in Afghanistan where your well-being is their priority.
no one’s going to mess with you, but also they could do whatever they want with you at any time. So eventually they found me, they picked me up and took me on motorcycle, took me to this room. So when I got there, I had like, apology, I’m sorry. And so some of them were pissed off. So maybe that’s where that was part of that was coming from. But yeah, it was, was this weird thing where we were, we were starting to get a little chummy, starting to like make jokes a little bit through my translator. And then some point I was like, Oh, they didn’t have you guys fighting the war. and then they’re like,
a few of them raise their hands. And then at some point, one of them came over and showed me videos of like American Humvees hitting roadside bombs and flipped over like rag dolls. And then when I saw that I was like, shit, like we were enemies. like, all of a sudden I was just, I was starting to like feel warm, right? And then I’m like, suddenly that guy holding the AK-47 looking at me, I’m like, shit, this doesn’t feel so good.
And that’s when I was like, I have to, can I leave? Can I go back to my room? Because I feel very unsafe. I think there’s a part of me that wants to like everybody and wants everybody to like me and wants the whole world to have world peace and hold each other’s hands to sing kumbaya. But that’s not, I don’t think that’s going to happen. Yeah, it’s dream. You think so? I think in many ways we’re improving as species and
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being more aware and open-minded and accepting maybe like little, but then there are things that counteract against that too. What is it? The law of entropy, everything gets more more disordered. So we’re ordering things, but at the same time things are getting more disordered. yeah, I’m a little bit skeptical. But from a religious, spiritual standpoint, I do think one day there will be a healing of all things, but I’m not sure if we’re going to be able to achieve that on our own.
the members of the Taliban there, there was a hatred underlying or like a forgiveness. Like what was it? What was the feeling? What did you feel around them? I feel like they thought they were better than me because they were like, we beat the Americans. Did they? Yeah, we withdrew. So they look at it as a win. I guess it is similar to like the Vietnam War that the Vietnamese look at as a win because we left. Yeah.
We don’t have a good, mean, America doesn’t have a good history with just like these smaller countries. I don’t think it’s winnable. Well, yeah. Unless you go in and kill everybody. And obliterate it. Yeah. But you do that. It’s not the right I guess you can, but it’s not the move. Yeah, yeah. Also, what’s interesting is I’m Asian. So I’m like Asian-American. So that’s a little bit hard for them to comprehend. They were like, oh, are you from China? No, no, no, I’m Taiwanese, but I live in America. And I confuse them even more. Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, I think they were actually just very curious about me and I was very curious about them. And that’s why it was fun in the beginning because we were both really curious about each other. And then a certain point I saw that video and then it just sobered me up. There’s a lot of divisiveness and us versus them in the world. So this is a pretty good example of that. But in your experience, what actually binds us?
versus separatists? Probably when we think we need each other. If we don’t need each other, then I have no reason to try to bind myself to another person. But if I feel like they can offer something that nobody else can. So I think the more perhaps the more we think that other people have value, have inherent value, are beautiful, you know, then the more we would be willing to open our hearts to them and connect with them. But if...
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If we don’t understand them or our hearts are closed off to them or we see no reason, if we have no motivation to connect with someone, then we never will. So do you think the modernity of the world and having everything that you think you need at your fingertips now without needing human interaction is going to destroy our ability to actually have people in our lives? Because even with all of that, we still look for connection.
So it’s going to be something more. Yeah, mean, like with the internet, it can create empathy and remove it. you’ll watch videos and it depends on what they are. We should just make the algorithm good and just deliver like open-minded, curious, and not just be so focused on getting the person to not want to put their phone away. I mean, if you look at the incentive structure of this. No, it makes no economic sense. It makes no sense.
I’m sure there is a good only newsfeed out there, it’s bankrupt. feel like I’m subscribed to... Well, so I’m from California and I live in New York, so I’m more democratic leaning, but I’ll subscribe to some Republican channels just to see what they’re talking about and see where they’re coming from. Sometimes it’s really interesting. What have you learned? There are certain views I definitely don’t share with them.
But then there are some things that I’m like, okay, I can see where you’re coming from. What’s an example? I started watching Charlie Kirk videos. I’d never knew him before until he passed away. Fascinating guy. Yeah. Did you follow him before his death? I’d seen a few videos and I’d listened to a couple of podcasts, but not in any meaningful way. Yeah. Well, I think his, I think his videos have been getting more views. Usually how I He’s a martyr now. Yeah. He’s a family God fearing guy that used
his weapon was of choice was his words and shut down, which makes him even more interesting. He got shut down. He got shut down. He got shot. shot down. like shut down, like silenced. Yeah. Because he was too effective with the words he was saying and he was building too much momentum. Well, that’s what it was. It was if he wasn’t good at what he did, he wouldn’t have been killed. Right. But unfortunately now,
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everything that he’s ever said is now amplified to a level that it’s probably created a thousand or ten thousand or a hundred thousand more Charlie Kirk’s that are motivated by. It’s funny how these things happen. It’s usually how it goes. Look at Jesus. Look at the Bible. Look at the spread. Look at the, I don’t know, like the, the Jewish community and I don’t know the details, but.
getting crucified by the Romans and the Colosseums. then 200 years later, the Roman Empire becomes Christian. Biggest judo move ever. Yeah, It’s like, should have let him live and it probably wouldn’t have grown as big. Or Donald getting hit in the ear and then becoming president. Like that was the moment that was solidified. I remember, because I just moved to America when that whole...
the election was occurring. So I was just like a tourist. I just felt like I was taking it all in as a tourist. It’s this is great. It’s just American culture. is a super bowl of American culture. And I was pretty heavy on Twitter at the time and TikTok and just getting a feel for what people were saying and the read of the comments, which is a lot of chaos, but you can, you look past
chaotic comments, can get a general gist of what the mob, where the mentality of society is sitting. And I do the same. I actively try and listen to multiple sources to balance out the views and the perspectives that come in. But I saw this TikTok of Trump getting shot and someone was commenting on it.
Some girl was commenting on it saying, did you hear that Trump got shot today? And they were like, yeah. And then they were like, did you see the photo? And they’re like, yeah, I saw the photo. We just lost the election, didn’t we? And they’re like, yeah, we just lost the election. I just thought that was hilarious. It’s insane. Yeah. Insane. Yeah. That’s the moment he became a hero. Couldn’t have been scripted better. It was so weird. It was so weird. So weird. And his reaction as well.
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Yeah. I feel like it’s either we live in a matrix or we either live in a matrix or that that moment he was training. He was built for that moment in some weird way. Cause you’d when you’re about imagine you got shot, right? Shot at your first is your first reaction going to be like, let’s fucking go. That takes a specific type of person. This is exactly what my friend said. Yeah.
But he said, you’re right, I never thought about that. And you see character under fire. That’s where I was like, as much as people were shitting on him and calling him all these names and stuff. And I have no dog in this fight, remember? At any moment, I just go back to Australia. Sorry, but I saw that and I thought, in spite of all of the things that are negative about him,
It genuinely seemed like he cares about America. And that’s what not a lot of people. That’s why you think he did this? Well, he, yeah, he wanted to rally the people that were around him to know that it’s okay and he’s okay. And this just. I felt like he was just taking advantage or leveraging the moment. Maybe, but he just got shot. I feel like, I feel like to me that exposes his mental awareness and wherewithal to be like, Oh, I can.
And maybe there’s a part of him that likes that kind of heroic kind of glamour thing. Maybe, I don’t know about the loving America thing, but that’s, I looked at it, I didn’t see more of that of his character. I saw that more of his personality, maybe. But still made for that moment. It’s the same thing though, isn’t it? I mean, someone could have a good personality, but not necessarily good character. What makes a difference? I don’t know. I just, maybe I have...
more positive, you’re viewing it, you’re taking a negative lens and you’re going, what are the negative reasons why he might do this? And I’m looking at it maybe more positive and going, what would be the positive reasons for him to want to do that? Again, imagine you got shot. It’s your first reaction. You don’t know if there’s a shooter still there. You don’t know what’s going on. You don’t know anything that’s happening. And five seconds later, you pop back up and you’re like, fuck this.
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I’m going to rally the people that are here to see me. That in my mind, I would be like, I’m getting the fuck out of here. me away from this. What would Obama do? I have no idea. I wasn’t paying attention to Obama at the time. Maybe Obama is another strong leader in a different way. I mean, you could argue if you really do care about America and you do feel like you’re the best possible candidate, you would stay down to protect yourself.
Well, hold on, hold on, hold on. So why did all of the commanders in all of the armies that were successful lead from the front? I don’t know if that’s always true. Generally, from what I understand about most of the really, really successful commanders and generals and people, especially in the times where you had to lead an army into a battle, they consistently all led from the front. They were the first ones to
Yeah, probably because if you didn’t then everybody else would just be like, I’m not going to fight for this Lord who like is not putting his money with his mouth is. But this isn’t exactly the same parallel, like leading an army into battle versus getting potentially shot on the podium. It’s a leader though.
It’s the attitudes of a leader, someone who has a responsibility to lead 300 million people. I’m not sure of just my own judgments on Donald’s making it difficult for me to see your POV. I see his less of leadership and more of like showmanship. I think that they’re one and the same, half the time. But not the same.
think they’re adjacent. Leadership and showmanship? Both of, it’s part of the same world. One’s authentic, one’s for show. Showmanship would create. It’s about image. An image that allows people to rally around, which leads to being led. That’s how I see it. So you felt like this was like giving hope.
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I felt like that was a moment in time where that wasn’t something that you plan in any way. he chose the most dangerous route in that moment. He could have just got shot in the head. Who knows what could have happened? 10 seconds. He didn’t know. That’s what I’m saying. It showed a grit.
that I was like, holy shit, that’s fascinating. then, and then, like I’m on a political leading, I’m, I did one of those, you know, there’s like long core things that you could do to find a way. I’m like center left. So, but pretty center. So I’m like, I could go either way and I can’t vote. don’t worry about me. Yeah. Seeing Donald as a, as a genuine authentic leader.
I’ll try to keep an open mind. mean, he’s seemed like he might get the whole Gaza situation settled. So at the end of the day, if you can get stuff done. Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah, it’s.
It’s also difficult to separate what is just an algorithm propaganda from an algorithm and just general propaganda from reality. Yeah. What truth is. So I’m and I’ve really kind of lost my ability to I don’t have a good frame of figuring that out because it’s so difficult and I’m so thoughtful and I have no dog in this fight and even I struggle.
So I just look at things on like, try to look at things as on first principles and be open-minded. And if somebody comes to me with some contradictory information, I go, shit, where’d you find that? And I’ll try and understand the source of it. And then I’ll try and adjust my opinions. Yeah. But anyway, we digress. I wanted to wrap up on a couple of further philosophical things with you.
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What is one of the biggest things in the last two years you’ve changed your mind on? Donald Trump. Today. I mean, yeah, I mean, just like what? Okay. I was the last two years changed my mind on. I became a full-time content creator two years ago. something I’m beginning to realize at least from my work, cause I came from like corporate finance and, you know, work, work, work, grind, grind, grind.
And I’m not so sure that’s always optimal in terms of like trying to grow and get more followers or just be better at what you do. Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe there’s seasons for different things. I’m in a season of, I’m currently in a season of where grinding is not so helpful anymore. Yeah. I’ve been thinking about this recently because this week actually I got, I got a gig that is well above anything I’ve ever been paid before.
And it’s kind of broken my frame. Another box broken. Yeah, a little bit. And then I thought to myself, I’m like, my friend was asking me, because I’ve started this content agency, and my friend was asking me what I wanted out of it. And initially, I’m like, I to get to 2 million a year. That would be a number. That’s kind of, how do I get there? And he said, cool. Well, approach it this way. We’re just chatting through. And then I said something to him along the lines of actually like,
My real goal above all of this stuff is I want to keep doing the podcast and I want to fund my life in a way that allows the podcast to maintain and to be maintained as an art form more than something I have to do to make money. So if I can do other things in say a maximum of 20 hours a week so I can spend the other 20 hours a week working on the podcast, that’s probably an ideal state goal right now.
And then I was like to him, he’s like, what’s your number then? I’m like, probably look, honestly, probably like 250 K would be like really comfortable in New York. Not crazy amount, but enough to be able to travel and live in a comfortable spot and eat out a couple of times. he doesn’t go very far here, of course. And he’s like, that’s probably achievable. Like this guy’s scale, he has a multi-million dollar ad agency. So he’s like, I’m pretty confident I can help you grow.
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this content agency to something because he’s done it. He’s done it all. And I got to thinking, I was like, okay, well actually, like, if I think about this, what is, what is 250 grand a year working 20 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, give or take. It’s like 400 bucks an hour. And I got to thinking, if I just said no to anything that wasn’t that number from today, I’d have to
It kind of shifts the paradigm of how I, the things I choose to do with my time.
And I know this is just a thought I’m still fleshing out, but imagine if you just turned around today and you’re like, I’m not doing anything that I can’t mentally guarantee a million views on. How does that shift the way you create and the decisions you make and the time you spend, you know? you’re definitely more selective. Yeah, way more selective. It’s a little bit less pressure, but also more pressure in a way, but it’s less pressure in the sense that you’re not like working all the time. Well, yeah. I mean, if you’re working all the time and doing random shit,
doesn’t actually like move the needle. Right. How do you have time to move the needle? Yes, you’re right. It focuses you. Yeah. I mean, I’m chronically working on way too many projects at any one time. I just, it just happens. Yeah. I mean, I’m actually going through something similar to, I don’t know, just for me, the algorithm has been like, in the past, it was, felt like it was easier to give you. And now it’s like really kind of clamped down. But so now I’ve also been like, okay, less is more kind of thing. And
I do think there are times when creating more quantity is good, particularly when you’re trying to master your craft and going through those reps. Cause then you’ll learn stuff like, oh, and let me put this here so that the, you know, the camera and you know, what you were doing earlier. And for me it was like the editing and the interviewing. There are times when the reps are important, but then there’s some, there’s certain point where you master a certain point and you’re like, oh, actually, you know, I can already do 20 push-ups. There’s no reason to keep doing 20 push-ups. Anyways, so.
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Yeah, think one handed push ups. Yeah, one handed. But I think this was all part of the evolution and process of creating and doing, working your craft. Yeah, I mean, I think I haven’t got quite got to that point yet, but it’s like, it seems like the truly great creatives build themselves up to a point and then just destroy the whole thing and start again as a part of the as a part of the process.
Like when they’re just hitting their peak, where everyone else would continue, they’re like, all right, we’re going this way now. Fuck y’all. Do you have an example? An example might be, a poor example, but like a Kanye West was an example. Just complete left-hand turn, because he just thinks, going this Or like a Rick Rubin might just completely switch up exactly what he’s working on in a whole other world. Or an author might write something just wildly different.
to what they wrote last time. So wait, what are you saying? Why are they doing this? Because you’ve gotten, you might’ve gotten to a point where you’ve done, you’ve done the thing. Yeah. And there’s a, easy route, which is maintaining the same thing and just slowly it declines and declines and it’s no longer a thing anymore. And you, your soul dies in the process of that thing. Or you go, cool, call it a day. Let’s go do something else. Which is really difficult to do.
Yeah. But what’s even more difficult to do is doing something you don’t enjoy doing. Yeah. And a lot, I guess a lot of those people that managed to make that decision are people that have never worked on their projects from a place of must do or I’m doing this for anything but because I enjoy doing it. Right. Or I feel like a fire or a call to do it. Yeah. It’s hard to, it’s very hard to quantify in a, in a outcome driven world. Hey.
Anyway, wrapping up. you could know the absolute truth to one thing, what would it be? What is heaven and hell like? You’ll find out eventually. Hopefully the former. Yes sir. Where can people find you if they’re interested? I’m on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Eric Jang, Eric J3 NG or just type in Eric Jang. E-R-I-C-J-E-N-G. Check out my content. Cool man.
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And last question for you is why do think we’re here on earth?
Sex, sex and love. Sex and love. In that order? I’ll take whatever you can get. Oh man. You haven’t met a nice girl, a girl from church? There are many nice girls in church, but it’s finding the right nice girl. Nice. And if you enjoyed this episode, please go to YouTube, search that one time with Adam Atwelly, click like, subscribe, and leave us a comment.
Fuck yeah.
