Why You Fall for Magic — Mentalist Exposes Mind Tricks
Billionaire yachts, bent forks, and psychology collide in mind-bending stories.
Here's a conversation with Kevin Nicholas, my podcast guest this week on That One Time with Adam Metwally.
Kevin is a modern mentalist who turns psychology into jaw-dropping stage moments.
He’s performed for billionaires on private yachts, charges five-figure fees for an hour of magic, and racks up millions of views stealing watches in plain sight.
Below are some of the key concepts we explored in the episode:
Master audience focus with Kevin’s 3-step misdirection loop – use it to boost engagement in your own presentations by at least 50 %.
Raise your price 5 % every new client – the simple tweak that took Kevin from restaurant tips to 200+ paid shows a year.
Adopt the “one-hour-early rule” – a habit that wins repeat bookings and sky-high client trust scores.
Timestamps:
0:00 The unexpected invitation
3:06 Psychology of magic
5:48 Early lessons on mastery
8:58 Journey to 10 000 hours
11:53 Art of misdirection
15:06 Psychological archetypes on stage
17:59 Fork-bending illusion
21:00 Handling hecklers
23:52 Life of a magician
27:08 Relationships on the road
32:23 Performance & audience flow
34:20 Wild audience stories
35:51 Social media vs mystery
39:12 Becoming a pro magician
42:08 Minimalism & happiness
46:37 COVID comeback lessons
51:34 Professionalism & respect
57:58 Future projects + meaning of life
It’s up on YouTube, Spotify, X and everywhere else.
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Here’s the full transcript:
Speaker 1 (00:00.532)
I got invited by a guy who was a prince to go to set the South Pacific on a billionaires private yacht. I performed two and a half weeks on the yacht with everybody and then found, and then potentially the guy who invited me might’ve actually been a con man and not a real prince.
What do you mean?
Yeah, it was one of the craziest. Yeah, this is you want to do the real story? Yeah. So the real story was is that I met this guy at the W Hotel in L.A. I was there and I was doing some magic, just happened to be at the bar hanging out, did a little bit of magic. He’s like, I want you to come to like my my like party at the Playboy Mansion. And I was like, of course. They ended up changing the event to like another house or whatever. But it was still a party.
You’re gonna tell me about this
Speaker 2 (00:49.742)
you
Speaker 1 (00:55.342)
He then, lived in Texas. I did like three events for him, one for like some serious, serious, like the ballet type stuff, all this crazy events. And I get a phone call and he’s like, hey, would you want to come to Tahiti and like be like an entertainer on this yacht? And I was like, I can’t even afford the flight, but we’ll figure it out. I did it.
I ended up meeting everybody on the boat and it’s for two and a half weeks. Like I was doing magic. Like every other night they had like a pianist on it. Like they had like amazing, amazing artists. And I was just a guest in a sense. And then like a of weeks, like a couple months later I get like an email being like, this guy is like bad news. I hope you’re not a part of that. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, and by the way, I was like a 25 year old.
like magician. Like I was not, I did not have like, I barely could afford the flight to Tahiti because I think that was like two grand at that time. No, no, I was like a guest, but like what are the odds? And then like, I found that then they were like, I did some like little research that he might’ve not been who he was. I was like, what? I have no idea. I would imagine so, but like his whole story was like crazy. He was, he like,
So what was he doing? Where is he now?
Speaker 1 (02:20.226)
He was all part of Houston’s high society. He was hanging out with billionaires and athletes and throwing crazy parties, private dinners, not just a house party. He was throwing these insane dinners for the socialites of Houston, Texas.
you
Welcome to that one time with Adam Metwally, the podcast conversing the pillars of health, wealth, art and wisdom for all your holistic hustlers out there. Today, we are at the beautiful Music For A While studio and I’m with Kevin Nicholas, the modern mentalist. Hi, Kevin, welcome. So, what are the psychological principles that underpin a magician or a mentalist’s work?
What’s up?
Speaker 1 (03:15.818)
Well, I think the one thing that people have to stop thinking about is like, you’re just fast with your hands. Like, it’s just too fast for, know, your, you know, the hand is quicker than the eye, which is a true statement. But the reality of that is that I can do the exact same effects in slow motion and still create the same results. So I always want people to think that’s not so, but there is a sense of
using psychology, misdirection. Misdirection is where I, you know, I will always put, I will always control a situation. Thinking a couple of steps ahead, which is something that I’m always, so when people ask me, does it ever not work? You would never know. It’s kind of like, if a comedian’s telling a joke, if you don’t know the punchline, you don’t know when.
joke ends. So you could be like, well, that didn’t work. Well, did it not work? I just didn’t, I changed it up. magic is kind of like a jazz routine a little bit. There’s always a little, there’s always something going on and there’s always ways of moving around things, which I think is pretty cool.
Cool. So I want to dig in a little bit more on the key lessons that the toolkit that you’ve developed has had a positive impact on in your life and how other people listening could apply that.
Should we start from like really the beginning? Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s go into the beginning get ready to just completely Suck at everything you want to start with it doesn’t matter if you think like okay, like even natural talent Doesn’t help you in anything other than understanding the principle of What you’re doing so like there are people that are
Speaker 1 (05:18.964)
you know, so good at music, they can see something, they understand it, but at the same time, your hands still have to make that moment. You understand it, you see things, but you still have to go through that momentum and find that passion. When things come easier, you actually, in my personal opinion, are not as good. I think I’ve struggled with that. That’s something that I’ve learned from my life, is that when the easier things come,
the less you care about them because of how quickly that comes to you. And so to me, if you’re not pushing yourself to where things get even harder, then you just stay dormant. You start doing the same things and it’s comfortable and you’re on cruise control and that could, even being on cruise control doesn’t mean you’re not gonna be successful, but you’re not gonna push yourself to higher levels. For what I’ve gone through,
I knew what it was like being 15 years old working 15 hour, I was working anywhere between five, six hours a night working restaurants, table to table, doing card tricks, asking people if they wanna see magic. Like, you know what that, like being a 15 year old, like walking up to a table and being like, hi, you wanna see a card trick? Like I’m the magician tonight at this restaurant. And then being on like a date, like I remember my first table I ever did, the guy said no to me.
He was on a date like he was on a date. I was like, hi, I’m Kevin I was in like this oversized suit I looked like I was so I can remember to this day my first table where I was my restaurant this guy gave me a shot to like work there and That night. I think I made like 70 bucks. Like it was this Like I was just making tips. Okay, I was just making tips at that time and But I was like it was cool though. Like I wasn’t working out like
Commission only.
Speaker 1 (07:11.714)
At that time, obviously within a year or two, I would be working at a mall or something. Probably should have worked at Abercrombie for that time. But I did that, and that was the lesson. And it was just going through that process of learning everything to where every car trick, the way I walked up to a table, the confidence that you get, that’s what makes you good. It’s like you know.
You’ll learn that you know you’re good at something when you can just go in and be like, hey, we want you to do this. But when you get that feeling where, how to put it, you’re getting a little uncomfortable, you still get those shakes, you still get that excitement, which is what I’m actually fighting for now in my career to the point where I’ve been doing this well over 20 years now. Like I started when I was like 13, 14.
So which is even older than most people, you know, to start this. It was a hobby that I understood quickly. But yeah, it’s so so my my advice, if that’s what it is, know, you’re going to go through every single bit. You’re to through highs, lows, but you better understand what you’re getting yourself into. And if you want to be the best at it.
Yeah. So something that comes to mind with your early days was the Beatles were playing at this one venue for a really long time, every single night. And they just practice and practice because I played as a random bar. And it’s like famous for the fact that it was like where they got good. So those tables of six hours a day, it’s probably very helpful.
you get through that 10,000 hours of mastery really quickly. you can get paid on the way, you don’t got to work at that. Well, I knew I was getting good when I was coming home with like $200, $300 a night in tips. I was making more money than drug dealers at my school. I was literally coming out with like a wad of cash. It was awesome. And I just would throw it in like this bin.
Speaker 2 (08:58.35)
If you can get paid a little bit on the way, even better.
Speaker 1 (09:22.528)
And it was nice going to the mall and not having to buy whatever you wanted at that time, you know? So yeah, it’s, but like you say, it’s, it’s those moments. And it was also, I will tell you the best time. It was the best time ever. Cause I was just doing it to have fun. It was not a business. It was not, you know, I think, I think the hardest thing for a lot of people, maybe not in our industries of understanding, but
The time it stops being fun is very scary. Especially for what we do. There is a work side to things, but the moments that it stops being not loving what you do, and this is what you’ve given up years of schooling for, the stuff that you’re on this different journey that is not normal. You gotta find a fun in it. You gotta find out what it is, your why. Why are you going through
this because you know it’s not as easy as getting a 401k working nine to five getting that check every week or every two weeks you know so
think it’s switching from being an artisan to an operator, like a business operator, they’re two very different things and very different skill sets and very different goals. So trying to find the art in the business when you do make that switch is the important part. So I want to dig into a little bit more how you learned to become a magician and how people could create this themselves.
So there’s not a, okay, we live in a time when access to anything is a couple of clicks away. As simple as Googling magic tricks, you will find magic websites left and right. You will find the same tricks that all artists, a lot of artists are doing just by going through these websites and being capable of buying.
Speaker 1 (11:25.742)
Because magic tricks, there are different types of magicians. You have creators. You have people that are creating magic. Then you also have performers. And then you have a little bit of both. I’m more of a performer. You have guys that are literally creating concepts, marketing them, and having artists like me buy them, and creating our own ideas to them, or taking other ideas. have to, magicians are like chefs.
So which one are you?
a difference.
Speaker 1 (11:53.41)
When you understand how to make the foundation of what you’re doing, then you could take any ingredient you want and make that dish. So if you were a chef and I said, these are your ingredients, you know what to do and work with that. As the same thing like a magician or a mentalist, we see an idea. We don’t know if the exact idea is how they’re doing it, but we can figure it out and create the illusion that we want to.
Are there any magicians that have blown you away recently? Really? yeah. Still to this day you’re like what the fuck?
hell yeah. There are guys that literally I’m just like I’m just gonna throw my fucking cards away. I should not even own a deck of cards how good some of these artists are.
So what makes him so good?
they just perfect things to a different level. there’s, okay, a perfect example is this. You have people that are so technologically amazing at what they do. You can think of somebody as talented as Adele, right?
Speaker 2 (13:07.406)
He’s Lebron James of Magic.
In which capacity like like who like to go? No, then you’re gonna say Michael Jordan then you ain’t putting little broad James in that game
No, no, the current playing goat.
Right now in magic or in mentalism?
I guess we’d have to explain the two.
Speaker 1 (13:32.366)
So right now, the most popular mentalist and magician is probably my boy, like, Oze Perlman, who’s on every single network. He’s on all that. David is like, David Blaine is still the name to say, oh, like David Blaine.
but nobody comes up to me and is like, that magician that was on like Hard Knocks or that stuff, that’s like, is Pearlman. And he’s one of the hardest working guys I’ve ever seen. I can’t imagine how many shows he does a year. with him, he’s the, in my eyes, one of the most poster child, that’s a career you dream to have.
You mentioned in the rapid fire that there are psychological archetypes that you’ve understood throughout this process. What are some of those and how did you actually get to a point where you began to understand them?
I think you realize like When you design a trick or when you start working with a trick that’s for you you start working with you start dissecting it from the complete ground up like it’s completely naked and You start saying okay like How to explain this like this is just a normal deck of cards just so I’ll even shuffle more more time just to shuffle this up now look it cannot
Let me ask you while we’re doing this. You saw one of my shows. What was, and by the way, he was on the stage with one of my shows. And so I know his personality and he’s one of those guys that’s actually trying to, you know, not dissect it, but he wants to make sure that I’m as good as I am. Like that’s like what it is. It’s not so much,
Speaker 2 (15:12.13)
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:36.206)
If I remember you picking a card or me saying take a card you took the top card This one So which makes it so good which makes me think about like your personality and how you’d want something so So for the audience and for everybody here if I said to you name a card out loud what card would you want to use?
three of spades. That one spade.
on the spot. So I have to figure out in a way how to take this card right here and make that the three of spades. So that like just like that. Now it’s funny because like I’ll that about middle of the deck here and then it going inside. It’s not my fingers. It’ll just come like that.
Speaker 1 (16:36.046)
What are you missing? It’s a point where you just watch it. It’ll change completely to some eight of hearts. It doesn’t really matter. Here, he’s going to rewind that and close. Yeah, right. There you go. So we’ll just shuffle them up one more time here.
Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about, I knew it.
Speaker 2 (16:52.524)
Anyone listening to this on the audio is gonna be so-
So we’re looking at this. So we have the ace of clubs here though, without ace of clubs. I’ll leave it right here. With the ace of clubs. Well actually I was going to say to you right now, without eight of hearts here, can you take a card?
I look underneath.
Speaker 2 (17:09.802)
You go first!
He still goes to the first one. I love it. I love it. So with the eight hearts there, what’s that?
Three parts.
that’s a three of hearts? Here, give me that three of hearts. Okay. Wait, was this the card you wanted? No, that wasn’t the card you wanted. You wanted the three of spades, right? Yeah. Okay. So I got to make that ace of clubs disappear. And that’s yours. And that’s a, yeah, that’s just going to piss him off tonight. He’s so bad. to. So it’s always about, and like I said, it’s kind of like a jazz thing. It’s like kind of playing with somebody. How do you want to do this?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:37.902)
That’s great.
Speaker 1 (17:46.422)
I could have gone there, could have just turned it right over, could have had you pick a card, I could have played around seven different ways and I love that. The show is always in my hands.
sitting here thinking, where are you putting? So apparently you can bend the fork as well. Because I said in the rapid fire, that would be the one trick that you would do.
Yeah
Speaker 1 (18:07.924)
I can bend a fork, yes.
Yeah, this is my claim to fame in a small way.
Really? Cause no one could bend a fork before
many people do, but it is one of the effects that I knew one of the creators of that helped. He designed this method to it and he produced it and he was kind enough when I was like 18, 19 years old to give me the time of day and we talked about it and I’ve been doing it ever since and a lot of people forget about it. One is they’re all real forks.
So to you should, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:52.696)
mean, it’s not that heavy. It’s bendable.
Kidding what do you like? It’s a fork. I’m not as say we have to go to like 11 Madison and give me like, know crazy here, know, so but Yeah, no, so like you understand the illusion of like what it’s like to bend a fork stuff like that It’s just a little crazy though when you can actually see it start bending
steal like
Speaker 2 (19:21.356)
But you just put it in your You just bent it. Can I can I can I bend it? Yeah It’s a little hard to bend, isn’t it? I don’t know Can I bend it and then you unbend it?
Come on, come on, man. I mean, I can’t. Yeah, wait, why don’t I just do it this way? So you’d actually just see the moment that it actually just starts bending.
Speaker 1 (19:44.876)
Here you go, keep it going.
What if I do this? Can I bend it this way and then you unbend
That’s actually kind of cool though. That’s actually cool. Wait, hold on. Which way did you go? This way? OK. That’s cool. That’s fine. So it looks like that. So now we have a little shocker. There we go. West side. Here. Why we do it this way? We’ll just watch it. You’d actually see the moment. We can make them all start bending.
Here.
You know what though? Let’s, let’s, let’s not stop. That’s not, wait, this one will go straight. Here, wait, actually we’ll do this actually. Let me do it in your hands. Hold out your hand. So, so we’re snapping forks here. We’re doing this up. He’s holding, he ain’t going to let that crap go ever unless I tell him to. So here, ready? If I could bend it in your hand, that’d be impressive. Now. So already watch this one, two, three, not just bend. How about I twist?
Speaker 2 (20:30.744)
We
Speaker 2 (20:44.494)
It’s gonna be uncomfortable.
This show has already got uncomfortable. We haven’t even got to like bad things. All I gotta do is one snap of the hand just like that. Open your hand. That’s completely twisted now.
When did that happen? All right. So what have I missed? Can you give us a breakdown, a high level breakdown of what just happened without revealing the trick itself? Yes. Just quickly though, I love doing this podcast. If it’s positively impacted you in some way and you would like to support us, please subscribe. By subscribing, it allows us to build a much bigger base of listeners, which results in better guests, better production.
Hey!
Speaker 2 (21:26.274)
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back a little bit. So long story short is I am creating an illusion with misdirection and everything with the ability of people thinking that it’s my mind doing that. Misdirection is like if I have you look one place
So what is misdirection?
Speaker 1 (22:23.138)
I want you to look somewhere and something is happening somewhere else. It’s like making you put your attention and your focus on something from another area. I think what would be good is like an idea of when I like, I’m not going to do it on this because you’d understand it, but like stealing a watch. Like I can take people’s watches. Yes, I can take watches.
making someone focus on something while something else is happening.
So you just have really good pickpocket.
I didn’t even have this shit walking in here, I swear to God, there was just a nice gentleman outside.
So, so what are some techniques to misdirection?
Speaker 1 (23:11.854)
You know, like that’s so that’s hard. Like there’s not the only way to learn how to like do what we do is to get caught.
to remain.
So like when I was first learning how to like take watches, I was getting caught. was like literally like, was, I literally had like people being like, you’re trying to steal my watch. I’m like, yeah, I am. No, I was doing that. I was doing them at like restaurants. Like I was like doing it like in the moment and stuff. And then you start and then like you learn like how to actually like the techniques of how to take a watch.
Square Garden.
Speaker 1 (23:52.298)
And what’s funny is like, those are some of my biggest videos on like Instagram. So like, there’s no hiding it. Like there’s no magic to it. You can watch like Instagram videos of like being like, I’m like, watch his watch.
Can we do that as a clip?
We’ll put a little pin thing in one of the videos for sure.
So good. Side note, can you be a magician if you can’t snap your fingers?
I do have a good snap. Don’t I? was thinking I’ve had so many people be like, you have a good snap. I’m like, I, yes, I would imagine so, but it’s still just, it just, it hits harder. It’s one of those good things, you know?
Speaker 2 (24:28.014)
She’s still-
Speaker 2 (24:32.206)
It’s a good snap. And you mentioned during the rapid fire that you can’t, you don’t actually get girls doing magic. So surely there’s been some positive scenarios. What’s been the biggest blow up that you’ve had when it comes to doing magic and trying to date?
You know what? think this is actually good. We make a lot more money than people think. Yeah, I like I I’ve had I think that was like one of the things for me like in my career was always like what we do like we travel the world. We meet amazing people.
I have no doubt.
Speaker 1 (25:16.65)
we can have a conversation with anybody. Like these are all good clout. These are green flags. You know what I’m saying? And, but a few of them, but like you tell somebody, especially I, I am single. I’m not single. I’m auditioning. Exactly. Is like, we just have,
but we have crazy schedules. Our schedules typically are at night, weekends, corporate, travel, et cetera, but we also have that. And then it’s a game of hospitality. Like for me, I get along with like, know, crazy makeup artists and like hairstylists. Like we understand each other so well, you know? So, but I will tell you that as a magician though,
The game of hospitality.
Speaker 1 (26:11.758)
It’s the best icebreaker. But people will be like, can you make a living doing that? I’m like, no, no, it’s okay. I struggle so much. I struggle working six hours a week for the last 20 years of my life. Terrible. You start really appreciating what it is to have time to live a beautiful life. you know, it’s especially like single like
That is a good laugh.
Speaker 1 (26:41.004)
Some of the things I see on days like this year, they’re like, I want to travel more this year. You know, like that’s like one of like the prompts that people put and I’m like, have you, like, did you get to go anywhere? Have you traveled where, and and you start, and you, and the people you meet open your eyes to so many other things, whether it’s food, whether it’s a lot of the private events I got introduced to wine and certain foods and
I’m a big cigar smoker, that’s my little vice. I have hyper, hyper ADHD. So it’s the only thing that can keep me sitting down in a chair unless I’m talking to somebody with a mic in my face. I cannot, I will change a subject without even realizing I’m changing it. Which my best friend tells me, she’s like, I was just talking about something really important.
and you literally just change the topic and I’m like, I’m sorry, that’s just what happens.
Do you think that helped with the ability to be a magician or a mentalist?
I think it allows me to change, change in a moment’s notice. Like if something happens, if there’s a heckler, if there’s an audience member that’s there to work with your show, that change. But I will tell you that like there is a difference from Kevin Nicholas, the stage performer and magician.
Speaker 1 (28:13.112)
versus Kevin with my real last name, which no one knows, which I like. No one knows my last name. So Nicholas is my middle name, just in case you’re curious. I didn’t even pronounce it. So it doesn’t even matter. But that persona is completely different. There’s that dude that just chill out, sit at a bar, cool, and collected. And then there’s like Kevin Nicholas who’s
And then turns out I do.
Speaker 1 (28:42.806)
Magic
That’s funny. So how do you handle hecklers?
I think I love them. I really do. I think they make a show so good. No, no, like I want to, I want them to become, cause when they become part of the show and you make it work for you, weren’t a heckler, but you had your own persona that made you a part of my show. But if you notice, I still controlled the outcome of what was happening.
embarrass them until they leave.
Speaker 1 (29:20.94)
I had fun with you in the beginning. We and you like developed a sense of fun rapport. wanted to see where I could take the show when you were on stage. And that allowed me to know where it is. So when you were, when you had some of your moments, I didn’t just go stop it. was like, I played into it. But at the end of the day, the job is to get the audience to be on your side where sometimes it comes off like, yo, and that’s what’s
here.
Speaker 1 (29:50.636)
And that’s what’s doing this for 22 years. like, I’ve seen every audience member. I’ve seen what it’s been like where people have been the absolute highs to the, ma’am, are you still alive right now? Like, are you okay? Like, you’re not here right now. Like, welcome to the show. You know, like, and that’s all, and you’ll experience all of that. So yeah, I love a good, a heckler that’s not trying to be a
He just wants his part in the show. And that’s what they really are. They just want to be noticed. But there are some people that you literally meet and you’re like, who hurt you? Who kicked your dog as a child? Who bought it? You came out tonight literally to like. Yeah, you really want to go. I’m not taking your girlfriend away from you.
Choose violence.
Speaker 1 (30:50.19)
Like if anything like as a magician and like a mentalist like dude, we are your best wingman Everybody needs a magician in the group, you know It’s the easiest thing like a friend just like yo, he’s a magician. Everybody would be like show me a trick Show me a trick. It’s like you’re
So what trick are you showing on to break the ice?
I typically do stuff if I if I’m with like a group of friends and stuff I typically stay away from the car tricks. That’s kind of like
You always have a deck of cards and a fork in your pocket. Great when you’re getting take out.
Not a fork. They’re normally around a deck of cards sometimes a lot less now You know It was fine in like your 20s but once you get to like once you’ve hit that pass like Pass closer to 40 than to like 20 having a deck of cards is just like a weird flag. That’s just like What are you gonna show me a card trick?
Speaker 2 (31:34.476)
Got less to prove.
Speaker 1 (31:52.45)
Like that there is not, you know, it’s good. It’s fun. You’ll entertain people, but you’re not exactly like you have to up your game a little bit. I’m sorry guys. If you guys, if you guys are going out with the deck of cards to meet girls, magic tricks.com, pick some other stuff.
deck of cards when I go out. This is my business card.
There you go, there you go. See, that’s it. It’s like, it’s like I’m a DJ. I’m a DJ.
I’m not a DJ. I’m not a DJ. It’s not my personality. It’s just a skill that I’ve developed that happens to be useful. You can come to my set. You can come to my set.
but you can come to my site.
Speaker 1 (32:34.351)
I got you actually you invited me. got invited and I was already home. Yeah, I was already going to bed.
You’re
Speaker 2 (32:43.502)
What’s the strangest audience member interaction you’ve ever had? Something that just says never has been etched into your brain. What happened?
There was a great story. I was in the Bahamas doing an event and I was at the bar and I did some magic for a group there and I did a trick and I predicted a woman’s like, like a person in her phone and she got so freaked out because didn’t comprehend that what I was doing was a trick. She went to security.
In the Bahamas, by the way, like I didn’t, I didn’t understand like how they were even going to take it because they wouldn’t understand like what I even did. Like, you know, and so this, she went to security thinking like, like hacked her phone and took all of her contacts and people away. Like I literally had to explain like not how the trick was done, but was like, she thought of a name and I predicted it. Like that was it. Like that’s what the trick was.
And it wasn’t anything. And she lit. And then the woman, another girl that I was like, I met too, like we all like, you know, like when you start meeting people, you just start like, they thought that other girl was like my accomplice. yeah, it was just whole thing. And I remember that and I’d be like, Oh my God, I’m going to like go to jail in the Bahamas. Like I have to go to my show. Like this woman literally went to security. It was so crazy.
The whole thing.
Speaker 1 (34:20.045)
I, I, didn’t comprehend it. They don’t know. They probably thought I was, you know, it’s like voodoo. How do you explain magic to people that are like, I’ve never seen magic before in a way. Like it was like weird security. It was so funny. By the way though, that, that next day I ended up meeting the GM.
security even say?
Speaker 2 (34:28.462)
You’re going to at the stake!
Speaker 1 (34:46.4)
of hotel and then they flew me back like a month later and I did a residency at the hotel. I was like, thank God. But that was funny. Yeah, that was probably the craziest interaction.
That is kind of wild. The phone thing is pretty wild.
Yeah, when people think of a name and all of a sudden, like, you predict that, yes. That is, it’s not kosher.
Anything else you can tell us in this? You’re leaving a lot of the time.
Most people do. In this episode.
Speaker 1 (35:16.066)
What do mean? I’m trying to be so good. I got stories. I got stories for days.
Yeah, we want when we code hot strip
Just go on YouTube. Go on YouTube and go on like magic tricks revealed. I’m pretty sure they’re going to. So that is something that is unfortunately, you know, these magicians, what creates popularity is views. Would you rather watch magic being done right or would you rather watch how it’s done?
a few. Adios.
Speaker 2 (35:51.288)
That’s how it’s done, yeah.
Exactly. So there are a lot of magicians right now that are exposing other people’s work, not mine, but like other people’s work, people that are marketing tricks, buying them, and then just exposing it on their Instagrams. And it’s like, yeah, that’s not, you know what, by the way, they’re never from, they’re never from the States. Really? Yeah, we’d find them.
Is there some like crazy magician beef going on in the industry?
I wouldn’t say beef. would just simply say like, you see these guys that have hundreds of thousands of followers that are just taking magic and exposing how things are done and people want to learn it. But at the end of the day, you also enjoy the, the feeling of being, I don’t like the word tricked, but entertained. And I think that’s what makes people love magic. You know, that, that one thing that still in this society where we can find information now,
just through like a chat GPT or just through a YouTube or anything, it still gives us a little bit of that mystery and that’s the one thing about our art that is really special.
Speaker 2 (37:02.453)
So should you just kind of get all the magicians that are fighting and get them on the Quidditch pitch? That duel to the death, a magic duel to the death.
I’m a little interesting because I only have like two magic friends. I am so out, I am so far removed.
So you guys don’t run in pack. Like there are. My boy is like throwing. Just. Sealing watches. Dangerous gang. Watch.
I am like somebody shooting that mad dude
Speaker 1 (37:36.344)
Yeah
Speaker 1 (37:40.952)
Stolen washes and throwing cards at c- How dare they!
Cups!
Oh my god, we’re probably wearing like little like paperboy hats and stuff like that’s oh that would be funny. You know it’s like it’s like the what’s the movie now you see me now you see me that’s the movie that now they’re coming out with a new one. Yeah I don’t there are so many well the funny thing is like I know a lot of magicians but like as like my friends I’ve only I only have like two or three magician friends that are really like
picture right now.
Speaker 1 (38:17.654)
And we don’t even hang out. They have families, they have their lives and stuff like that. And we kind of work together, God forbid, some of us don’t have the availability of doing a show. That’s our connection. Now don’t get me wrong though. I know a lot of people that are in that community that are all, they’re tight, they work on material together, they hang out together. I was just never one of those people. Which is so interesting. was...
I was an athlete in high school. I wasn’t like a magician where I thought magic would have been cool. I was an athlete that learned a couple of card tricks and started doing them in the hallway. And I loved the reaction. That’s how this all started, people. This is how my career started from the hallways of Oceanside High School to the now traveling the world with like, it’s kind of crazy.
I find that interesting. what point are you like, yeah, I’m going to do this for the rest of my life.
When I graduated college, I graduated in 2009 and we were in a bad recession and I could not find a job. And my family was like, look, you love this magic thing. You make some money doing it. Why not attempt to do it for a year? Just do it and find a job afterwards. But at least you have something.
not to like fall back on, like, you know, you can make some money. And then year one, I did it. And then that second year, I made a little bit more money and I was making at that time still more than like a financial analyst. that time, I studied business management with a double minor in sociology and history. Nothing imagined, no magical arts.
Speaker 2 (40:00.64)
What did you study?
Speaker 2 (40:05.6)
if not.
Speaker 1 (40:10.67)
You jumped the gun, you bastard.
Yeah, also an entertainer.
I’m also an entertainer. There’s no magic college in the US from what I know.
What do you the total amount of magicians there are in America? Hmm? It’s not many. Not many.
of those.
Speaker 1 (40:31.308)
Now, in my personal, I tell people all the time, go, they’re like, how hard is it to succeed in your career? go, well, that’s my point. going, I want you to say five, say five A-list actors. You can do it in a second. Say five, not just like five musicians that are top notch. Give me five magicians.
Hey, she’s not
Speaker 2 (40:40.846)
couldn’t be that.
Speaker 2 (41:02.594)
David Blaine. That’s it.
Yeah, yeah, that’s what I meant by the four, yeah.
But like my point is, is that our reach is so different from other art forms that to really make it and do what we do, you really have to be on the top of your game, which is a blessing to me that this is all I do for a living. This is what I get to do. I wake up every morning and I go, okay, I’m going to perform tonight. I’m going to entertain. I’m going to bring people joy and stuff. And there are a lot that do make a living, but
just, you know, the one thing is, is do you want to be the next celebrity magician? Yeah. Which I wanted to be your, and then COVID hit. And that was the load. That was the hardest point of my, ever my career. cause you couldn’t perform. Yeah. And then I realized I don’t need to be the most famous magician in the world, but as long as I get to do what I do,
perform for the groups that I want to perform for. I could be in the market I do and create my niche there. I’m happy. And it’s been like that for about six years now.
Speaker 2 (42:20.28)
Yeah. We can still become a famous music.
If that happens, know, look, I’m not going to say no, I’m just saying it’s not like it used to be that like I wanted all like that’s who I wanted to be. Like I needed to be that guy. Like, you know, I’m Mr. Cool. Like I’m not, against the grain. Yeah. I stopped. I’m like, look, if I do, if I do an event that no one hears about me and I could pay my bills, which I do very well.
I’m cool with that. you know My midlife crisis was getting a nose ring
I did that too, don’t I? Did you? Yeah, yeah, I got rid of it after a while.
My 30, 34th, 34th birthday, my ex said I would look hot in it and I got it done and I kept that. was like, thanks Cece.
Speaker 1 (43:18.274)
bait and switch. That was a bait and switch.
No, it’s good. I had the same thing at like 27 or 28. I had a breakup and then got a nose ring. And then I was like, I had it for a few years. It was fine. And then I did, I did some mushrooms, like a really high dose of mushrooms instead of myself in the mirror. I’m like, this ain’t me.
I
Speaker 1 (43:41.772)
I’m just, I’m just scared.
Like the whole thing’s moving and like, you know what? I don’t think this is me. And yeah, I just took it out and then that was it done. Had my few year phase and caught it today.
You know what’s funny is when I first got it I’m like and my ideal in like some of the like really higher and conservative world of like people I know it doesn’t affect anything.
I don’t think you’re the type of like persona that’s gonna be questioned.
But like, it’s so funny though, because like, I have like, it’s funny, like doing certain events and like you have like an older conservative Jewish grandma who’s like, she’s like, you are just a man. And I’m thinking in my head, I’m like, nose ring, heavenly tattooed, like I’m fully tatted up everywhere. And then, you know, like you have this moment where like in my show, you know, like my ending, take
Speaker 1 (44:38.976)
I show like the tank top and everything. And you have these events where they’re like, what the fuck did we hire?
But you know what? At any moment you can just make it disappear.
Yeah, that’s it. It’s just a little magic. That’s it. That’s it.
no.
Speaker 2 (44:56.174)
So wrapping up, I want to jump into a couple of general philosophical takes on your world that I’m curious about that I’d to ask everybody. what’s the biggest thing over the last two years that you’ve changed your mind on?
The way of me trying to find happiness, happiness now for me is exactly what I want and not catering to what other people and that has allowed me true like peace. You know, it’s allowed me to live my life right now to be like, okay, I don’t need this. I’ve become a little bit more mental. Over the last year and a half, I’ve become very minimalistic.
I call it luxury minimal because everything I like, I like luxury things, but I don’t need five of the same things. I don’t need this and this. And I wake up every morning getting to do what I do and finding happiness. And, know, I think that’s kind of what I’ve learned over that. The year and a half is stop catering to everybody else and just focus on me being happy. And that’s going to piss some people off. It’ll be, you know, a lot of people will leave.
You know, it’s a little cliche from what people hear. You know, I’m sure it’s going to end up in somehow like some like meme or some Instagram thing like, find your happiness, piss off everybody else. You know, but it’s true though. You know, it’s I’ve watched people around me grow in other areas and find happiness for them in their own way because being jealous or upset or resent other people is just going to bring you down.
You know?
Speaker 1 (46:37.43)
It ain’t worth it.
Yeah. It’s a hard thing to get to, though. How did you get there? COVID.
go through there or through COVID, which we’ll
How did COVID help you get to that mental state?
COVID put me through the hardest depression I’ve ever been in. On the other side of it, I lost, I lost every bit of financial ability. had a pay, I had a, went from being one of the top mentalists in the country going back and forth to LA every week. I had shows everywhere. I was really on a track of doing things that were exciting. And then COVID hit. I lost.
Speaker 2 (46:56.316)
On the other side of it, I mean.
Speaker 1 (47:21.866)
all of my finances caused me when you’re not doing what you’re meant to do in life, you’d forget who you are. And people would be like, well, know, what do you, you know, are you who your job is? I’m like, yeah, you know, you started learning that like, that’s a really tough thing. It cost me my, at that time, my girlfriend at that time, because, you know, I was, I was just in a dark place.
It was bad and I hated everything. I hated people. I remember being by myself and my closest friends who are older than me were like, we didn’t even want to be around you. It was bad. was like, don’t, because I was just complaining. I was complaining and bitching about every single thing. it’s like, me kind of moments and other people were going through it.
But it was, yeah, that I remember that moment of being on my lowest and just being like, thanks. I have a wonderful, wonderful therapist. And I highly always tell people, I’m like, I am pro therapist. To pay somebody to listen to me bitch and moan for an hour, great. It is so good. That also has helped me.
When you go from so highs to complete low and not know how you’re going to get back and not even allowed to like, you know, like you have no money. It’s like, okay, I got to work. I got to hustle. Oh, right. You’re not allowed. You weren’t, I wasn’t allowed to perform. I wasn’t allowed to be around people. That’s who I am. That’s what that’s, that’s my why. so that, that was a really dark place.
So how did you get out of it?
Speaker 1 (49:14.574)
Slowly, shows started coming together. I’d wear one of those giant doctors masks that were clear so you could actually see my face. I worked, created, under the same name, a show called a Zoom project called Cocktails and Card Tricks where I taught magic tricks on Zoom for like, you know,
team building exercises and stuff. And that was kind of cool. That kind of worked out a little bit, but it literally just, all it did was just pay, pay the bills to keep my lights on barely. I remember my family helping me out at that time. So, and you know, you, you really, you know, for anyone that’s gone through that, like it’s hard because especially if you’re, you’ve been so independent and then asking for help, like you don’t know what to do. Like
And no one could explain. like, it’s not like your industry makes sense to other industries. So, yeah, so COVID was really a dark, dark time. I’m, but I’m also blessed about it. I’m like, cause I’ve never thought I would be in a position like that ever in my life. Like my nickname in high school was smiles. Like I smile a lot. I’m always, I got a big smile. It’s very expensive. Great dentist. Great. Great dentist. But
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:35.694)
Bye!
Speaker 1 (50:42.434)
That allowed me to remember that if you can get through that, there’s just stop bitching now. Just do what you do, it makes you happy. That’s my thing. I know it’s easier said than done. I mean, but don’t think that my success came from 10 years of doing this in high school. Let’s just say, Mike, when you get a nickname like Magic Kevin in high school, pre the movie Magic Mike, it ain’t cool.
similar concept.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Different show. I tried to a little extra, but it’s there.
Look, these clothes disappeared.
Speaker 2 (51:20.646)
man, I got so many jokes. So wrapping up, what is one lesson you’d like everyone to take from this?
Come on, Let’s go!
Speaker 1 (51:34.104)
You’re going to laugh at this. But I think it is something that has developed. It’s allowed me to be somebody that people rely on and it’s going to sound corny. When you’re early, you’re not late. And I am always early for everything. It’s I have event planners that will hire me.
just for the knowing that I will be an hour early to their event and do not have to worry and get things air. It’s a sense of respect to them. It’s a respect to whoever and whatever you’re doing. so for all those people who are like, I’m always late. Yeah, that is a pet peeve of mine. That is an absolute pet peeve of mine.
I’m five minutes late to just everything. Just on the dot. Well, I think I overpack my schedule. That’s my problem. do so I have too much to do.
You cannot be five minutes early.
Speaker 1 (52:36.662)
So now there are understandings of like you’re late for a reason, like, Hey, this ran late. This is going late. You’re in a position of that. But I’ll tell you this. If you know what entertainers like us charge per hour, you’ll be on it that we are early. I have literally had people stop dead in their tracks and respect me.
when I told them how much, when I talked into a show and said, told them how much I was making per minute.
So what’s the most amount you’ve ever made in an hour?
A lot. A lot. You’re in the boat. You’re in the area. It’s not bad. I a roll out.
10K.
Speaker 1 (53:25.72)
Yeah, yeah, I’ve done I’ve been lucky enough to do really well in that regard I mean don’t get me wrong not every show is that but it’s but it was also really funny is that like I did that show and I was like
Would you like me to say hello? They’re like, no, you’re good. I did not care. was like, I didn’t charge enough. I like, I didn’t charge enough. was such a cool, it was a cool moment, but like, was like, I’m like, they were like, we just want you for the cocktail. You’re doing so good. my God. You were amazing. I’m like, would you like me to say hello? They’re like, no, no, you can, you’re good. Thank you. Go sit, go eat, enjoy yourself. I’m like, so easy.
This is awesome. Like what? What? Okay. I’ve got a strategy lately that I’ve just been putting up my price at 5 % every new client to see what happens. We’ll see where it lands.
Yeah, I...
I’ve I learned I learned a great it’s a it’s good advice is from it’s from a very famous magician here in New York he wrote it he talked he said look I had to give up X amount of dollars to get my why and You in a for a while you’re gonna lose a lot of work. Yeah, you have to give it away you have to do that but you You know, I think people
Speaker 1 (54:50.176)
appreciate things that are cheap. They appreciate if you were giving something, you know, like, it’s cheap. I appreciate it. Thank you. You do not respect it. You do not respect. If I offered you, you know, if I offered you this, you’re going to say thank you. You’ll take it. You’ll watch it. If I charge you why you will make sure that the show is amazing. You will make sure that everybody knows who I am. You will make sure my name is said. And that’s just a respect thing. And you know, and
And you and you’re taking a lot more seriously. I hate to say it, at least for me. It’s not that I’m trying to I’m not screwing somebody over. They just understand the value of what they’re paying for and why I am or they can have something else. And so, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it’s a fine line. Well, I think America and New York, especially, there’s so much more money and opportunity in this city. you can have a bit of a... You can get really good at your craft and you’ll find people that’ll pay you. Australia, and especially where I’m from, which is a small city, 200,000 people, you don’t get...
Get that? No, but the cost of living is different.
different. I was living. I was spent. was earning at one point probably like five or six X the median wage and it was great. there’s a ceiling. You just get to a ceiling and then you
Speaker 1 (56:11.694)
But you have, but isn’t that, it’s crazy though, like over the next couple of months I will be moving and I’m going to stay in New York. But what you get for your, it’s like you pay for convenience. I don’t want to, I just, but what we pay just for a 500 square foot box,
Leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (56:39.246)
Yeah.
800 square foot like right now I live in the two-bedroom with a balcony and everything and I’m looking I’m going I’m gonna I might have to buy a house I can buy I can buy a house easier than me getting to finding this in Manhattan Yeah, or anywhere else so I mean it’s crazy It’s it’s insane what we do to live in New York and why we do it whether it’s family you your journey and what you’re doing and stuff like that, but it’s like
There was a great meme that I saw today. was like, looking at 30 plus acres in the middle of nowhere, but it’s like half the price of like what you’re paying now. You’re like, right. You know, this is what you get. That’s it. Get to live in the city. get your potential more swipes and likes on your dating app.
Yeah, I that’s the end goal.
Speaker 2 (57:30.99)
I need some magic tricks.
Don’t put magician as your profile
DJ podcast magician.
I’m just gonna say 6, blue eyes in finance minus the finance in
So is there anything you’re excited about at the moment that you’d like to let the listeners in on?
Speaker 1 (57:51.724)
Red blue eyes. There you go.
Speaker 1 (57:58.35)
Follow me, Modern Mentalist is my Instagram. There will be a lot more public events coming up over the next, I would say, two to three months where cool concepts that I want to create, not just magic shows, but experiences like what you got to experience. so please, no need to follow, it’s amazing, but
check it out and keep it because if you like this and what we’re going to do, I know we talked a lot more than seeing, there’ll be a little bit more. We’ll, do a little more B roll for you. I think that’ll be good. Yeah.
Cool man, and my last question for you is what is the meaning of life?
to wake up when you are actually awake and not be woken up by it.
Honestly, it’s not bad.
Speaker 1 (58:54.702)
It’s a beautiful thing to actually wake up when your body tells you to wake up. That is a blessing in life, you know? And the older you get, you’ll just wake up before the alarm anyway. It doesn’t even matter.
Cool man. Thank you, Kevin. Appreciate you.
Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me on.
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