How to Make Money in Music Without Being Famous — Andy Darling
You don’t have to be a superstar to make a living.
Here’s a conversation with Andy Darling, my podcast guest this week on That One Time with Adam Metwally.
She’s a Russian-born singer, songwriter, and pianist who started playing at five.
She toured Europe with her church choir, competed on The Voice in multiple countries, and wrote hits that charted in Russian-speaking regions.
She’s independent, has transitioned between rock bands and solo projects, and believes content creation doesn’t have to kill genuine artistry.
Below are some of the key concepts we explored in the episode:
Three real-world ways to create income streams in music without stardom.
EMDR therapy’s role in resetting negative beliefs (and how it boosts creativity).
Simple strategies to maintain a ‘beginner’s mindset’ for consistent personal growth.
Timestamps:
00:00 Making a Living in Music Without Stardom
02:56 Understanding the Music Business
05:52 Diverse Income Streams for Musicians
09:04 The Role of Content in Music Creation
11:47 Finding Your Unique Sound
14:59 The Journey of Self-Discovery in Music
18:09 Tapping into the Subconscious for Creativity
21:05 Embracing Vulnerability in Artistic Expression
31:13 Navigating the Algorithmic Landscape
32:44 The Comfort of Modern Life and Its Consequences
34:16 The Human Need for Conflict
36:39 Awareness and Personal Growth
39:22 Embracing Emotions and Responsibility
45:14 Understanding EMDR Therapy
56:21 Strategies for Success in Creative Endeavours
56:50 The Intersection of Luck and Preparation
59:59 Strategic Music Releases and Their Impact
1:03:15 The Importance of a Beginner’s Mindset
1:09:11 The Role of Kindness and Support in Confidence
1:14:12 Exploring Life’s Meaning and Personal Growth
It’s up on YouTube, Spotify, X and everywhere else.
YouTube
✌🏼 SUPPORT THE PODCAST BY PURCHASING PRODUCTS WE LOVE:
💧 Vitadrop — Healthy Hydration & Vitamins (Sleep / Hydration / Focus & Collagen) — Use the code ‘TOT’ to get 25% off your purchase @ https://www.vitadrop.com.au/TOT
👟 Vivobarefoot — My favourite barefoot shoes that I wear everyday — Use the code ‘TOT’ for 20% off @ www.[vivobarefoot.com/](https://vivobarefoot.com/)
🥗 Blueprint — Longevity supplements and meal solutions by Bryan Johnson — Use the code ‘TOT’ for 10% off your purchase @ [friends.bryanjohnson.com/TOT](https://friends.bryanjohnson.com/TOT)
📖 5 Minute Journal — My favourite daily gratitude journal — Use the code ‘TOT10’ for 10% off @ https://www.intelligentchange.com/?rf...
📝 Notion — My favourite note taking app I use for my business and personal life everyday — Use the code ‘TOT’ to support the podcast @ https://affiliate.notion.so/TOT
😴 Hostage Tape — A sleep mouth tape I use every night — Use code for 10% off @ https://www.hostagetape.com/products/buy?snowball=ADAM90598
🐄 Carnivore Aurelius Collagen — Collagen I use daily — Use code ‘TOT’ for 10% off @ https://www.carnivoreaurelius.com/TOT
👓 Blue Light Glasses — Glasses I wear every night — Use code ‘TOT’ for 10% off @ [www.blockbluelight.com.au/?ref=TOT](https://www.blockbluelight.com.au/?ref=TOT)
📵 Opal — Blocking iPhone app app I use daily - Follow the link to support the podcast @ www.[applink.opal.so/invite-friend?rc=EA66X&rId=AIriLLeGL0Nofh8MOpdNLEwgEF53&rNme=Admet](https://applink.opal.so/invite-friend?rc=EA66X&rId=AIriLLeGL0Nofh8MOpdNLEwgEF53&rNme=Admet)
Here’s the full transcript:
Speaker 2 (00:07.31)
Welcome to That One Time with Adam Metwally, the podcast conversing the pillars of health, wealth, art and wisdom for your holistic hustlers out there. Today, I am with Andy Darling at the beautiful Music For A While studio. Andy, welcome to the podcast. Hello. How are we doing? Good. That’s good. That’s good. So you said in the past, you don’t have to be Beyonce to make a living in music, which goes against what many people think. So what are the steps and frameworks to think about?
how to make a living in music without needing to become a superstar.
had this breakthrough when I really understood that, I actually do not need to be a superstar if I want to just make living and make music. I think I was like around like 20 years old and I went to this conference in Nashville actually called Music Biz where there was this one speaker who was so, he wasn’t
really talking about, you know how a lot of speakers, like to talk, they just talk in general. And that guy just went on stage and he was like, okay, so if you want to make money in music, here’s what you do. This and that and that and that. And then I realized, wow, I had this whole, I thought that I have to be a superstar to make money because I did not understand how the music industry works, how the music business works. In my head it was,
you have a great voice, great song, and then you become a superstar or you don’t. And that’s it. Life is over. Bye bye. You know, that was my mindset.
Speaker 2 (01:45.228)
or you can become a superstar and still make no moneys.
Yes, yes, that another thing. Yeah, but it’s yeah, it’s it’s harder to be a superstar and not make money though, because you know, even if you know, you don’t have, you don’t make money with. Yes, you can do that. But at the end of the day, if you still have a name, you can, know, you have a brand, you can still work it in some way, you know. So I don’t think you end up completely homeless unless there’s like some, you know, obviously everyone’s.
on the wrong team, you know?
Speaker 1 (02:15.648)
experiences different, but maybe if they, if a person like has all the stardom, but stardom, cannot really handle the pressure and then they end up, you know, with drug addiction or like what’s just some mental problems, then yeah, of course, you know, that could happen. But in general, if you reach some level, you can, if you’re safe sound, no, if you’re, if you’re mentally okay.
Which mentally sounds
If you mentally sound that’s what I was trying to say, you can make it work, I think. But I’ve never been a superstar, so I don’t know. Yes. Yes.
Yes, yes, So back to the understanding of the music business.
Understanding of the music business. The first thing that I realized is that how artists make money. I was like, okay, wow. So I’m an artist. So how do I make money? Right? I was like, okay. So I have a song and I release a song. And then every time people listen to it, stream it, it, whatever they do, I get paid. I’m like, okay. So I get paid because people listen to the physical, you know, file.
Speaker 1 (03:26.392)
But how do songwriters make money, you know, when it’s not their song on the track, but they still make money, right? And then I realized, my God, there’s master rights, there’s publishing rights. I was like, wow, okay, so there are different angles, right? So if I sing and I write, I can either make money with my own music or I can write for people who, you know, don’t want to write or, you know, want other people to write for them. So that’s how I can make money. I was like, okay, cool.
I can sing, I can write, I can make money with that. Obviously I can perform and then I can get some money, you know, with performing gigs. And it could be either my original music, which is a little bit complicated, you know, cause you need the brand first. But I could, you know, sing cover songs or play weddings. And that’s another, you know, like revenue, whatever source of income. And then from there I was like, my God, there’s just so much that I can actually do.
And for that, don’t necessarily need to be an A-Team superstar. I can just make it work if I have the skills and I do have them.
So what are some good approaches for people to make a solid living in this industry as they’re trying to build up their own profile, which takes a very long time as we know.
Yeah, so it really depends on the skill set of a person. You know, if people write, they can write for other people. And that’s where I found my main source of income as of even right now. I just write for other people and that, you know, that makes me decent amount of money. Other people, I don’t know if they’re like great guitarists or musicians, they can do session works. They can, you know, do gigs and play on the records for other people.
Speaker 1 (05:18.574)
And maybe some other people are, you know, they’re in music, but then they realize that they’re they’re great at developing artists and they can do like management. There’s just so many things that you can actually do, you know, but it really depends on a person and what skills they have. they like good socially, are they like genius at playing instruments or they’re just so determined that, and obsessed that they can really just focus on their artist thing and just somehow magically make it work.
What are some other streams of income that surprised you that you’ve noticed now?
sources of income? Well, one thing that I know it’s not very surprising, but I haven’t tested it out yet. But I think that’s where a lot of money is in that’s selling like merch and any products that, you know, make sense with your brand. And then there’s just so much that you can do with it. I just, I just feel like when it comes to me, I really like to focus on the brand.
that people trust and then once they trust your brand, can, you know, sell things to people and hopefully the things that you sell are actually like not good, but like they’re with good intentions and not just to solely make money that I don’t really like that.
I could see your face on a t-shirt.
Speaker 1 (06:43.17)
Thank you! I would love that, I should make that happen. but I think streaming and then there’s just so many different sources of income for artists. For example, sync is great too. Sync is when your music is placed in movies or commercials or TV shows. It’s music in a picture in a way, you know?
Yeah, make it happen.
Speaker 2 (06:59.276)
Yeah, what’s think?
Speaker 2 (07:13.184)
How do you get access to that sort of work?
Yeah, okay, that is a great question and that I can speak on my experience. So I’ve just been putting out so much music and people somehow find it. really like all the sync placements that I’ve had, they just came to me in a way, but not because I was just not doing anything and they just like magically appeared. No, it’s because I’ve been working so hard on, know, putting out music, creating all this content.
talking to so many people and you know like hitting everybody up and be like yo do you need music? got music bro you want it? I got it you know that’s how I do it I’m just like yeah I just do it I’m just hustling yeah big time
How important do you think being content first is for a musician now?
It’s such a painful artists. It’s such a pain. I know so many artists struggle with that. I actually don’t. I sound like a bitch right now, I think that content is such an amazing tool for unsigned artists, independent artists, and that gives us so much opportunity.
Speaker 1 (08:34.424)
But at the same time, because it’s so powerful, it can really kill the art in a way. Because even I had this mindset for like a couple of years where music didn’t come first. It was content first. It was more what is going to bring me views? What should I sing about so people relate in a content space? So I wasn’t really thinking much about songs.
I
Speaker 1 (09:04.302)
So it was more like content first and then music, which now that I met my boyfriend and you know, he, he has such a big influence on me and he’s always been a, and like music and art first. And he kind of, made me remember why I do what I do and like being locked in a studio, not locked, that’s a bad word, but like being in a studio for like weeks and just writing music for the sake of music, just because I want to make it. it’s not because
I’m writing for other amazing artists or to blow my artistry up. I’m just writing because that’s what I love to do. That just felt so liberating and so good.
For some context, who are you dating so people understand why that is useful?
Yeah. my God. Joshy. I’m dating the lead singer of Bad Flower. It’s an amazing rock band. Yeah. Josh, Josh Katz. I love him so much. Cool.
So for context, know, he’s doing it as well. He’s in the industry as well. So he’s writing music and he has some good potential views on how to approach the art of it.
Speaker 1 (10:18.862)
Yeah, he’s way ahead in the game than me. Yeah. Yes, that is true. Like he is in the rock scene. Yeah, it’s a whole different world. Even though it’s Yeah, it’s all amazing.
Different games though.
Speaker 2 (10:31.628)
There’s four of them. More people pushing it than just one.
Well, they have a whole team, know, they’re just so ahead in their career as of right now, you know, they have management label and everything right now. But when they were first starting out, it was pretty much just like, you know, me right now.
Yep, definitely. So you’ve had quite an interesting life. You born in Russia, you... Where’s my notes? You’re born in Russia. You had a really interesting appreciation for music from a young age. Classical pianist. Choirs, contests, music that blew up. You became somewhat well known in...
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:02.036)
I can help you.
Speaker 2 (11:20.342)
Russian speaking countries and then you go, screw it, I’m going to leave, move to Czech, move to America. You’ve been on The Voice in a couple of different countries. You’ve done a lot. So I’d love to go back to the early days to understand you more as a human and what’s driven you to where you are now.
Yeah, I just, as you were saying all that, I just had this song from Zootopia, like Shakira song, try everything. I was like, am that little bunny who is just like, try everything. early years. my God. I was born with an obsessive thought that I’m going to be a huge singer and that’s what I’m going to do. Yeah. I’ve never had any other inspiration left.
in life. I’ve never had any other dream. I was just, I think I was born with it because that was the first thought that I consciously had. And that was that I’m going to be a singer. And I wasn’t really, I don’t think I was that even good at singing when I was like five, six, whatever. I definitely was not like a genius child, not like Christina Aguilera, know, kind of thing. I was not definitely, but I, I just had this strong feeling and I just kept singing and copying every
artist I liked until I found something that I can call my sound in a way. But yeah, and then I had like, I’ve playing piano since the age of five. went to, in Russia we have, you know, just a, whatever, just a general school that you go to for 11 years in Russia. And then on the side, you can go to a music school. you do it, so you do both. then, so,
I was doing the general school and then the music school for like eight years since I was like five till whatever, eight plus five, eight plus five. But actually, no, I think I spent like 10 years in music school because I graduated when I was 15. Anyways, and then church choir for 10 years. And then I toured all over Europe with my church choir. And then I played in rock bands in Czech Republic and in Russia too. Then I spent like six months in Korea.
Speaker 1 (13:41.634)
I just, yeah, yeah, no, I just did a lot. I just, I just couldn’t, cause I had the, I had this dream, right? So I was born in the city. That’s called Drostovna Danu and probably only Russian speakers know, you know, what the city is. so I was born in a very, just like, mid-class family and, with the aspiration to be a world superstar.
did so much.
Speaker 1 (14:12.238)
And mind you, I’m like in this random Russian city telling everybody that I’m going to be the next huge thing. And people are like, what are you even talking about? This just sounds dumb. You’re not even in America. You’re trying to be like, Britney Spears. That doesn’t even make sense. Do you even speak English? And I’m like, whatever. I learned it. And yeah, it just didn’t make sense. But I just kept working so hard. Sometimes I wonder why. I don’t even know. Like, where does it come from?
Where does it come from?
I don’t know. That’s like a big question that I have. Like, where do our thoughts come from? Like, I don’t dictate my thoughts, you know? They just come, just like with everybody, we just have thoughts. But where do they come from?
Source? God? Who knows?
Exactly, who knows? I don’t know. watched, I think his name is Sam Harris. You know, predeterminism, whatever theory that everything is determined before for us, whatever. So that’s the concept I’m trying to grasp on. But yeah, I don’t know. Sometimes I don’t know why I do what I do, but I just love it so much and I’m just having so much fun.
Speaker 2 (15:25.582)
mean, that’s half the battle, right? If you’re enjoying it, then it’s not a bad way to live.
No, no, that’s the only way to live.
You mentioned that you were copying other artists until you found your sound. I want to dig into that a little bit more because I’ve heard that idea quite a lot.
Previously, especially in my own creative pursuits, I had this need to try and be original and I ended up doing nothing because I didn’t get good at anything. Yeah. So I came across this concept a while ago. So I’d love for you to elaborate on this idea and how to approach it effectively without completely biting things, but using it as inspiration.
So.
Speaker 1 (16:14.476)
Now that I’ve been on my journey of getting to know my subconscious and my psyche and psychology of really me and any human, I’ve come to somewhat of a conclusion as of right now that when I’m born, I don’t quite know who I am and what I am. I don’t know what I like.
And so I feel like for a long time, what people do and what I do is we project things. So we project things on other people. We see what we like and what we don’t like in other people too. So feel like in a way that’s the way, the way to learn something about you when you’re in the beginning of your as a human being or an artist is to project on other people and reflect through them.
And so it’s not that like, so in order for me to find who I was, I needed to understand other people and I needed to be them in a way. I needed to copy what they were doing to understand if I like it, if I don’t like it, if it is me or it’s not me. So it’s in a way I’m copying their strategy and their way, but I still am doing it my way.
I don’t even think it’s possible to just perfectly copy somebody, because we are only copying their result, but not their... Even if we try to copy their process, there’s just so many things that come with that process. And it’s so unique that you can’t really copy anybody. And I think it’s really crucial to do it in the beginning when you really don’t know who you are or what you’re doing.
But it’s really important to reach a certain stage where you know who you are and you know what you’re doing.
Speaker 2 (18:16.942)
How do you know when you’re on the right track and you know you’re beginning to find your own voice? What does that feel like?
I listen to my subconscious. I listen to my first instinct in a way. So that’s what I’ve been doing recently actually. A lot, yes. So it’s whenever I have to decide something instead of, I just, I listen to the first instinct. what, how does it feel? Does it feel?
that have been helping.
Speaker 1 (18:54.966)
right? Does it not feel right? And sometimes I feel like I can’t get caught up with the, think that I don’t want to do it, but it’s not that, but it’s in reality, I want to do it, but it feels uncomfortable, but uncomfortable is good. what, what is the difference between when you don’t want to do it, just because it’s uncomfortable or you don’t want to do it because it’s not right for you.
Well, actually, what is that difference?
That’s a good, great question. just feel like to know, I have to be super honest with myself. I just have to blatantly ask like, is it cause you just like are afraid? Is it cause it doesn’t feel comfortable that you don’t want to do it? Like be real. And then I just talk to myself or does it feel like it’s not the right direction for you? What are your reasons? What are your intentions? What are you doing this for?
You know,
Not, I’ve been doing this morning pages on and off for some time, but I journal my dreams. So that’s what I do a lot. So I think I wouldn’t call it journaling, but I have like 10,000 notes on my phone. It’s just, write down all my thoughts and yeah. So I guess in a way I journal, but it’s not like a systematic thing.
Speaker 2 (20:16.854)
Yeah, it’s a very useful tool to really think through where your thoughts are coming from and pull the threads of why you’re feeling the way you’re feeling, to try and get to some source of truth, to make better decisions.
I feel like, so yeah, I think my way is to analyze my dreams. That’s how I do it. And that’s why it’s, I’ve really, I’ve been really into Carl Jung. I don’t know what to say in English, Carl Jung. Yeah, recently. it just, his words and his approaches, they really resonate with me. And so just having that figure in my life as of right now, like just one source that I trust.
is so crucial because before I had so many people, like one person would say that and I’ll be like, my God, that makes sense. You, should do it. But then I’m like, come on, wake up. You, you don’t have to do this. Like you don’t. And then all these people with their opinions and their thoughts. And you know, when you let, when people feel like you’re like so open and you’re like in search, they all want to fucking advise you on something like, let me tell you what you’re not doing. Right. my God. You don’t fucking know, but nobody knows.
You don’t know. Like, nobody knows.
So run me through what resonated with you with the Kaoyang work.
Speaker 1 (21:41.198)
So what resonates with me a lot is he analyzes dreams a lot. So he puts a lot of emphasis on them. And then if I understand it correctly, he thought that dreams is a good way to speak to your subconscious.
So, and that resonates with me because I told you that before I thought that everybody had the same relationship with dreams as me where I have like a separate life and I’m aware when I’m dreaming and I just remember my dreams to like very pretty detailed. And then I have like this whole conversation sometimes like I write songs in them. Not like things come to me like I’m genuinely I’m working in my dreams and then I wake and I’m like, okay, that’s a good line.
Or sometimes it doesn’t make sense. It’s like, oh, a banana peel. I’m like, okay, that was not good. That meant something else.
It’s child’s dream. It’s crazy.
So you mean you don’t remember your dreams. I don’t know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:44.583)
Do you view the world, can you close your eyes and just visualize pictures? Really easily? Yeah. Clear pictures of things?
Well, you mean like, let’s say I close my eyes right now and you tell me an object and I can visualize it,
Yeah, in details and colors and...
Say it and let me see. Say anything. Banana. Yeah.
Yeah. So when I do that, I close my eyes and I just see a faint gray, black and white outline of the concept. Completely different. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:18.594)
So interesting, I heard about that, some people do have that.
Yeah. So the result has been that when someone says, draw me something, I don’t know how to draw it because I can’t picture it in my mind’s eye. Yeah, it’s really weird. Yeah. And I don’t dream.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (23:35.864)
Have you ever Googled that? is that? my God, you should. That is so interesting.
I don’t know, no I haven’t.
I think it’s...
something that can be trained. I’ve had very vivid pictures in my brain when I say do MDMA or something. My colors are super vivid. I can see in amazing detail, but then the next day I wake up and it’s gone. So I don’t know what it is.
It did begin to improve a little bit when I started writing down my dreams as well. Yeah. The process of just writing, trying to remember the dream in the moment and writing it down. And, know, when I asked you in the rapid fire, if you draw pictures, I would draw little pictures as well, shitty pictures, but it would force me to kind of try to visualize, visually represent it. And
Speaker 2 (24:35.566)
I was doing that for a while and I noticed I was dreaming a little bit more and I noticed I was able to get a little bit better on the visuals, but I haven’t done it in a while. So it’s probably worth redoing. So it’s interesting that you talk about how you can tap in to your dreams in such detail. And the next thing I was going to ask you was, what do you think the importance of tapping into the subconscious is to writing good music?
Well, first things first, I’m still, you know, mind blown by the fact that you have such a different process, you know, because everybody’s head is so different. Yeah, it’s crazy, right? But I actually read about that. But like they said, some people I think was on Reddit or something, they were like, my God, I have imagination. They’re like, I tried to imagine I can’t.
Just quickly though, I love doing this podcast. If it’s positively impacted you in some way and you would like to support us, please subscribe. By subscribing, it allows us to build a much bigger base of listeners, which results in better guests, better production, and a better show overall. Alternatively, please take a look at the affiliate links of the products that I use and love in the comments below and consider purchasing using those links. They’ll give you a discount.
and they’ll also provide the podcast a small kickback. These are two very easy ways for you to support us as we continue to grow the podcast that we absolutely love doing. Thank you for your support and I’m back to the episode. You mentioned that you have a sensor in you that likes to stop things, but then your music and your content is quite.
brash at times. what’s going on there? Are you fighting against that in some way internally? Run me through what’s happening there.
Speaker 1 (26:23.444)
my content, I feel like the way I do content is I let my shadow self, if we’re talking, if we are using young terms, right? Carl Jung terms, it’s like the shadow self. Is the shadow self is something that we’re trying to hide.
as people like something that I don’t like about me, right? I’m like, I hate that I’m that way. But I feel like I’ve spent so much time trying to hide something or try to suppress something that I just don’t have the energy for that anymore. So I fully go into the shame complex. So whatever makes me feel ashamed,
because shame was such a big part of my life. I always felt ashamed of everything. was like, I look weird, I sound weird. It’s just, I’ve been, I’ve been having like negative feedback on the internet since the age of 11.
That’s crazy, that’ll do a lot to somebody developing.
Exactly. because that was back in the day when, know, now there’s a lot of that right online, but we’ve had internet for quite some time. But when it was happening to me, that was just like the beginning of the internet. Again, like that I’m weird that my voice is weird. I have this vibrato. They’re like, my gosh, it sounds like a sheep. Her teeth are too big. Her face is whatever.
Speaker 2 (27:52.354)
same.
Speaker 1 (28:05.95)
I don’t know. So it’s just like a lot of things. There was a lot of love to don’t get me wrong. You know, people were loving it too, but you know, as a young individual, you’re like, you see that one hate comments and God forbid there’s more than one.
Yeah, it definitely stings more than the nice ones. The nice ones are like, oh, that’s nice. hate ones are like, oh, fuck.
Yes. And so when I first had that, you know, as an 11 year old, was like, something must be wrong with me. Right. I’m like, my God, if people say that I sound weird, maybe I do sound weird. And so I had all
Did you sound weird?
But it depends on who you ask. I don’t think that... So that’s... at the point of my life where I try... I don’t try, but I don’t really judge. I don’t think what is good or what is bad. Like some things are on pitch and some...
Speaker 2 (28:56.438)
facts, right? What is weird bad? You know, that’s it’s like there’s a connotation, but it doesn’t necessarily mean to mean bad. Like, there’s a lot of weird things that happen in the world that people thought were not good that turned out to be great.
Yeah, but the thing is like when people say weird, they usually mean that they don’t quite understand it.
That’s half the thing, and that’s less to do with you and more to do with them.
Absolutely, and I understand that now. when I was 11 years old, I did not understand that. I thought that maybe I do suck at singing, maybe my songs are stupid. then, you know, because I had my first video that went viral, fuck the V and Ws. The Russian in the video went viral. Bitch, it’s V, it’s not W. Anyways, so when it...
Yeah
Speaker 1 (29:50.926)
you know, got viral, some people in real life started like trawling me and I was like, Oh my God, this is horrible. Well, you know, your classmates, my classmates, they’re like, Oh my God, yes, sir. You’re making this like ha ha song son. It’s so dumb. that hurts. I have no idea. Exactly. Yes, I have no idea. But that really hurts. And now I’m like, whatever, bitch, like
What do mean?
Speaker 2 (30:07.436)
Yeah. What are people doing now? Much? Exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:20.788)
Sometimes I’m on key, sometimes I’m not. I’m just expressing myself. And if you have a problem with me just fucking singing, that is your problem. I’m like, just don’t be here. Like you don’t have to be here. I mean, I’m happy you’re here, even if you’re hating, you know, cause that like really triggers my algorithms. But going back to your question. So my relationship with my content is I’m just fully blown ex ex embracing.
my shame. Okay. So whatever makes me feel like, my God, I don’t want to do this. Like, you know, like I feel ashamed. do it. I just fucking do it because I just want to, I don’t want to, I don’t want to even think about it.
So it’s more for you, it’s more an exercise for you to find your true self and true expression than for anything else or anybody else.
Yeah, it’s my think about algorithms to don’t get me wrong. I’m not dumb. You know, I play the game. But if I film something and I feel like, my God, it’s, you know, I feel any type of kind of shame, which I don’t even think I feel it that much anymore because I’ve done so much stuff that is hard for me. It’s hard for me to imagine it now. I’m like.
Some wild content.
Speaker 1 (31:41.718)
What can I do, you know? But, you know, the sky is the limit. No, no, no. See, that’s my thing. So I just do everything. As long as my intention is good, meaning I do not hurt anybody, I do not harm anybody intentionally. I do it. But if people get hurt by me expressing myself, like fuck off. I don’t let this not my responsibility. I’m just expressing me.
Just don’t kill anybody.
Speaker 1 (32:11.618)
Yeah. Just don’t be here then. Yeah. So yeah.
Yeah, I mean, that’s a whole macro issue with the world where everyone’s a bit of a snowflake and people complain about every little thing and everything’s offensive and everything is everybody else’s problem that should be fixed by them and there’s no internal responsibility for your own decision making and your own reality. And it is toxic to the success of society as a whole.
Yeah, it’s cause people have it. Okay. Let’s be honest. The world that we live in right now is in a way more comfortable. It’s like, I have a question. I asked Google, I want to have water. go buy a drink. Like in a way we’re leaving a comfort. And so when we don’t have to, you know, protect ourselves from freaking bears or
from like some... We’re not gonna go there. We’re not going there. Then we fixate on like other things and I’m like, there are things happening in this world that are actually pretty scary. They’re like actually factual, pretty scary. And I’m not trying to undermine people, know, feeling the way they feel about certain things, but...
saw.
Speaker 1 (33:43.372)
Yeah, sometimes it can be like pretty exaggerated. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
I have a theory about this. They’re simpler. People have to have an enemy and they have to complain about things. It’s part of the human experience. So if there’s not big problems in the world to complain about and stress about, we find things to worry about. So the idea of a microaggression as example, because there’s people are much more passive now and there isn’t
That is so true.
Speaker 2 (34:16.429)
that fear of some guy murdering you on the street and like stealing all of the kids and it’s not as you know happens in some places. Generally in the Western world it’s relatively safe so you have to find the next layer of things that might be aggressive or problematic and then if you can’t find that you find the next layer and then the next thing you get to is the idea that somebody looking at you
But if we’re talking about
Speaker 2 (34:45.462)
is aggressive and
I agree and I actually noticed that with me too, but like in different, in different kind of the same concept, but different circumstances. It’s I think I was talking to my boyfriend about that. I was like having panic attacks and well, I realized now that it was because I had this virus, whatever like was really sick, but
All right.
Speaker 1 (35:15.788)
I remember like I had a song that was out and then I got, you know, support from Spotify. That was amazing. And I just, it was the first release that actually went great. And the first time in my life, cause usually in my experience, when I release something, the first day is just nothing, nothing happens and you just build up to it and just, you know, it’s a snooze fest and it’s a disappointment. But the first time in my life, like the last song that I put out, was like, wow, Spotify supported me.
I don’t know why, super grateful. And then all the people were like super like supporting me. And I was like, I was like uncomfortable because I was so used to, you know, the freaking negative thing. And I was like, my God. And then I had all these panic attacks and I was talking to my boyfriend. I was like, what is wrong with me? And Josh was like, that’s because everything is great in your life right now.
You’re not used to it.
And I was like, yes, it’s exactly what it was. Drama. I literally, hate drama. And then I genuinely do. And I’m super aware when I am creating it, and that’s what Josh really appreciates about me, that I actually tend not to create any drama in our relationship. But when I become dramatic, I like, catch it right away.
Create some...
Speaker 1 (36:39.246)
I like literally yesterday we were like watching a movie on FaceTime because he’s in Nashville right now and I’m in New York and I just started like, I don’t know, telling him, oh my God, you’re just like doing something, you’re not giving me attention. And then 30 seconds later I was like, ha ha ha, this is so funny. I’m creating a drama for no reason because I have a headache and I have my period. Wow, that’s so funny. And then he’s like, oh, thank you.
He didn’t say anything in that whole time, you just came to your own conclusion.
He loves that. He’s like, I don’t even have to say anything. You’re like, you’re aware. And I’m like, yeah. And so what I’m trying to say is that, you know, I do that. And I think that, you know, I put in so much work in my, you know, in my whatever, psychological health. do therapy, EMDR, you know, analyze my dreams, carlo young, psychology, whatever. I still do this dumb bullshit. And I think that’s normal. don’t think it will ever. I will.
I will not ever stop. But I think what makes a difference is when you do that, you’re like aware of it. All of a sudden, like before it took me a freaking day to realize that, you know, I was not doing something right or like a week. And then it was a day and then it was an hour. And now I’m at the point where I feel like when I’m doing something that is off, I can
I can feel it pretty quickly. Yes. In the moment I’m like, I think I’m really fucking up right now. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (38:09.268)
In the moment, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:17.582)
It’s good. It’s growth.
I thought you were about to say it’s gross.
That’s great. It’s great.
No, and I was actually talking to my mom. Sorry. I just have so much to say about that. Cause my mom was like, Oh, she had some conflict, um, thoughts in her head. Cause she was like, you know, I feel like this aggression and she’s like, and I feel really upset with myself that I still feel aggression and I still feel like, I want to like fucking strangle your dad when he says that. And, uh, she felt so guilty for that. And I was like, mom,
We’re supposed to feel that there’s nothing wrong with feeling that the worst thing you can do is try to suppress those emotions or criticize yourself for feeling that way. just hope you don’t strangle my dad because I love my dad and I know you won’t but like you’re a human being like emotions happen and that’s okay. And that’s like another relation that I’ve had recently. There’s nothing wrong with me feeling anything, but I need to be aware and I
Speaker 1 (39:22.338)
like my choices and my actions. Like I’m responsible for them.
Yeah, there’s a framework that I like around this that I heard a while ago, which is you can’t control your first thought, but you can control your second.
Yeah, I can’t argue with that.
I control any of them.
I don’t think I can control any of my thoughts. I really don’t think so. I think I can like guide them in a way and you know, I just can let them pass and talk to them and just, you know, I feel like there is certain, they are like a whole different entity and I have to just respect them. And just like embrace them and be like, okay, okay, I thought I hear you. I feel you’re great, but how about we think about something else? And then if they agree, I’m like, okay, thank God.
Speaker 1 (40:07.838)
But if they don’t agree, I’m like, okay, what else can we do? We’re to do sit-ups right now. And that’s why I exercise. like, when everything is so bad, I’m like, I’m just running to the gym. I’m like, we’re just going to run. We’re just going to run.
silences the thoughts pretty quickly once you get into a sweat. I’ve been trying something I tend to ruminate on. I tend to just think the same thought over and over and over and over again. It’s really wild. I get stuck in loops with songs for a day. Wow. same line of a song just playing in my head. I can’t even remember. I don’t process it.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (40:25.326)
What’s a ruminate?
Speaker 1 (40:41.326)
That was the last one that you had.
formally, but it’s there. And sometimes I’ll be pissed off at something and I just think about the same thought process over and over again. But now I replace the thought with something else. just, instead of saying the same unconscious thought that’s annoying me, I’ll just replace it with a conscious thought and keep looping that conscious thought for like 10, 20 minutes in my head until the other thought goes away. Cause you can only have so many thoughts in your head at one time.
And you can do it for 10 minutes.
Yeah, you can force replace the thought with something else. This is a skill that I’ve approached recently. I’ve actually from a podcast guest, talked about this idea that you can only hold five or six things in your mind at one time. once you realize that you can actively replace things with other things and they just go away.
Wow, that’s really cool. Cause you know, when I was at Vipassana and I tried to freaking, you know, replace things, I will only replace them for like 30 seconds, 60 seconds. then I’m like, la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la
Speaker 2 (42:04.558)
The ruminations say.
Speaker 2 (42:09.688)
goes away once you break the loop with something else. it’s decharged a little bit or you’ve replaced it with, for example, something like, I’m going to, everything’s going to fall apart, this is crazy, I’m so stressed. You just replace it with, I’m abundant, everything’s amazing, I’m abundant, everything’s amazing. And just keep saying it. eventually, you don’t even have to believe it.
until you believe it.
the sheer fact of getting that negative thought out of your head and just force replacing it with something more positive.
See, that’s where I have a problem with. I don’t like to force anything. Anything where I have to force things, I fucking hate that. No, for real, I actually think that positive thoughts and thinking is overrated. And I like real things.
I what’s what’s real? What’s more real? You having that ruminating that negative loop or you creating a positive loop? There’s no difference. Neither of them are real.
Speaker 1 (43:15.362)
I guess when I say real, I mean how I actually feel inside. Like what is it that actually is happening?
You can change that through exercise. You can change your state through active changes. So what is real? I’ll go back to that point.
That is a good, all of this is a good questions. I agree, I agree. I actually, it’s hard to say what is real and what is not because everything is over, like ever changing every minute and every second.
inputs impact your outputs.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I actually, think that positive, it is beneficial to think positively. It’s better to think positively than to think negatively. But I think that the worst thing is to lie to yourself. This is where I draw a line. I’m like, I don’t want to convince myself that I am not sad when I’m sad. That is very important to me. Like I don’t want to...
Speaker 1 (44:16.952)
I just, hate fucking lies. That’s what I hate. So if I feel a certain thing, that’s what I’m feeling. I’m acknowledging it. I’m upset, right? Let’s say I’m upset at the moment, whatever. And I’m not trying to run away from that feeling. I’m there, but I also don’t want to drown in it for days or over dramatize it and make my personality of being a sad girl, you know? That’s also very, I don’t think that’s healthy.
So I guess in a way I do like that if you know you’re in a loop, you’re aware that you’re in a loop and you cannot do anything else and you can replace, you should do it. You should absolutely do it. I do think that it becomes a problem for me when people are just, they just don’t want to face the reality anymore.
a very different thing that I’m saying. I think specifically for my case, I have so much focus on reality that it sometimes is overwhelming reality.
challenging to actually just go, you know what, we’ll figure it out. These thoughts don’t actually serve a positive purpose. They don’t help us get out of us being the country of Adam.
I completely understand you, but you need to specify that for the context.
Speaker 2 (45:33.678)
getting out of the concerning situations, going back over this same thing over and over again doesn’t serve a purpose after probably the first or second time, acknowledging it exists and then approaching it in some way is going to be a much more useful long-term strategy.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:51.886)
Yeah, no, agree with that. Yes. Absolutely. I usually just EMDR.
I actually had a note about that and I did want to talk about it. So let’s talk about EMDR because this popped up in my head, popped up in my world a bunch of times now and I haven’t looked into it in any major detail, but I’d love to understand it.
So I’m not a therapist or like an EMDR practitioner. I’m a patient. I’ve been in EMDR therapy for I think two or three years, but I want to say I’m in therapy right now. I mean, I do it only when I really need to. And even then my therapist, she doesn’t even like to do it anymore with me because you know,
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:41.25)
There is a certain, you reach a certain level when you’re like, you don’t have to just reprogram your, your beliefs. You can actually work on your mindset and your psyche instead of just like reprogramming. okay, going back to EMDR, what it is, the way I understand it, once again, a disclaimer, not a freaking doctor, just a patient. So it’s a technique that was
I think invented. Jung. No, no, Carl Jung had nothing to do with it. I don’t think so. Yeah, no, I think it was, I don’t know when it was invented exactly, but I think it was mostly used for, to treat people with PTSD. And usually PTSD, you know, happens with, you know, people who are military involved.
Francine Shapiro in 1987.
Yeah. Okay. So way after Carl Jung died. So, yeah. So, does it say that it was invented for the, you know, treat, to treat PTSD, military stuff. Okay. So, okay. you have to fact check cause I’m not a trained specialist, whatever. So, so what it does it, it’s a technique that you can use to reprogram your neural pathways, like anything that you find.
not beneficial for you in your thinking, you can reprogram using that technique. And that technique is literally moving. It can be moving your eyes very fast from left to right, left to right. can be like, I do it open. don’t know if you. So let’s say I have, I believe that I am untalented, right? So that is a belief that I have. It doesn’t have to be true or not. It just has to be true for me.
Speaker 2 (48:16.974)
Open or closed?
Show me, show me.
Speaker 2 (48:32.736)
It has to have an emotional charge inside your body maybe.
Yeah, it’s whatever I believe in,
How do know if there is a belief there? Like what’s the physical components of that belief?
Well, first things first, like it came up to me, right? So it means that it popped up in my head. That means that there are thoughts about it. So like the kid be like, you know, some hints that, my God, maybe I think I’m untalented, right? And then I just feel like I don’t share content where I sing or I don’t sing that often, whatever. Like I see the patterns where I’m like avoiding this because secretly I think I am untalented or let’s maybe I think I’m overweight, right?
And it doesn’t have to be, once again, I don’t have to actually be overweight to think that I’m overweight. And so, what EMDR does, like, it’s kind of like anti-affirmations. So whatever I secretly think about me and I want to reprogram, I say while I’m moving my eyes left to right. So it would look like that. Like I’m untalented, I’m untalented, I’m untalented, I’m untalented, or I’m overweight, I’m overweight, I’m overweight.
Speaker 2 (49:37.454)
So you say the thing that you want to unlearn. Yeah. While doing that. Yes. I can’t even do that.
Yes, that’s it. No, you’re doing it. You have to be super fast. Was I doing it fast? That’s because I’ve been doing it for a long time. Probably, you know, when we dream actually, so there’s like different cycles. Yeah, that’s what happens. Like your eyes just move really fast.
You’re just a muscle.
Speaker 2 (49:58.648)
live.
Speaker 2 (50:02.734)
I wonder if there’s a correlation between EDMR and rapid eye movement and having beliefs form during rapid eye movement.
Sorry, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:18.016)
Yeah. Okay. So if I understand correctly, when something happens to us, let’s say we’re just living life, right? And then there is a traumatic event. doesn’t have to be like big traumatic event. It could actually be a traumatic event, or it could be just something you said, something in a triggered man for whatever reason, I cannot process that. So during our Rep and I movement, we’re processing everything that happened to us throughout the day. Right. But if something
Like if our psyche finds something traumatic, it doesn’t really get processed during the REM. So in a way, the way I understand it, some events, some feelings, whatever that triggers us stays on the surface of our subconscious. So it’s like consciously, let’s say, I don’t even know why, but I hate blonde people.
And I don’t know why, like every time I see a blonde person, which is not a reality, I’m blonde, but I’m like, I get triggered. I want to hit them, right? But I can’t remember why. But maybe when I was two years old, this blonde lady hit me. And ever since then, I hate blonde people, but I don’t remember.
So you would just to try and work through that, you would just say, I hate blonde people.
Yeah, so it’s whatever it has to it depends on like, you know your therapy session with a therapist
Speaker 2 (51:39.534)
just go on YouTube and I shouldn’t go home and just...
No, it’s actually really dangerous to do EMDR yourself if you haven’t done it with a professional. Because some, you know, we only remember so much, right? So some events, I don’t even recall, but they will pop up during the EMDR sessions. some events can be so triggering and so bad that they can put you in the state of psychosis.
And so if you just do that yourself, you can just, you can get caught in psychosis without knowing how to exit the psychosis. Psychosis. I’m so sorry. she calls in Russian. but anyways, yeah. So it’s, it’s important to do it with a professional, at first, for sure.
Yeah, psychosis.
Speaker 2 (52:25.432)
Yeah, no, no, it’s okay.
Speaker 2 (52:31.822)
I definitely hear that and go, I’m gonna still try it.
It’s your responsibility, you can do it. I mean, it’s up to you.
I’ve like become this cracked out homeless person and man, I know that guy, what happened to him? He did EDMR by himself.
Which sounds like a drug, What do you do? EMDR? Oh wow, is that like MDMA? No, but anyways, it’s amazing because you can literally reprogram anything you don’t like or you don’t want. So it’s like a cheat code. I’ve so many people about it, including you, in August.
Show me this and... you did briefly. did...
Speaker 1 (53:13.184)
That was not brief. I never talk about it briefly.
Yeah, I vaguely remember that conversation now, but I didn’t process it as a real serious. I remember that I vividly remember now, but I didn’t process it as something that I understood. And I think it must have planted a seed and then I heard it again. Yeah. And then I heard it again.
Yeah, you’ll end up doing it, sounds like.
Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. I actually have paid for the $200 chat GBT a month thing. I’m trying it out. It’s just got way more things you can do with it. Wow. It’s expensive. I don’t know how long I’ll keep it for, but there’s this thing called deep research that it does.
$200 worth of 4.
Speaker 1 (53:52.546)
I’m trying.
Speaker 1 (53:58.478)
I have that too. I paid $20 a month for it, right?
There’s like another level up that you can go. Yeah, there’s more. So so I did I recently did deep research on EDMR and I’ve got it sitting there to read EMDR. Yeah. so I have that to read. So.
Another
Speaker 1 (54:21.57)
Well, if you want to do it yourself, know some people do this thing. That’s also tapping. I think that’s less invasive. So maybe you can do that. But I really recommend doing it with a professional.
I’d send it. You what? I’d just send it. just, yeah, we’ll try it. I don’t care and see what happens. I feel like I’m pretty strong and able to. Again, you’ll see me cracked out on the street in a month’s time.
Your life, your choice.
Speaker 1 (54:54.446)
But it is a cheap code though. EMDR has changed my life. I used to do it like twice a week and that is a very extensive therapist. Like you move your eyes fast and it’s like tiring and it’s like a lot of things. It’s like, for it, I show my therapy sessions are usually like at least an hour and a half.
like
Speaker 2 (55:12.428)
and you’re removing your eyes almost the whole time.
No, no, no, not at all. It’s probably if there’s like, let’s say 90 minutes, probably 45 minutes, you’ll be moving your eyes. And then you have to talk to your therapist, you need to define what is the actual cause, the actual roots.
while you’re moving your eyes.
It depends on your therapist. Sometimes we just talk and then I move my eyes, but now don’t, can’t remember the last time I did MDR with my therapist. was like maybe, I can’t remember, eight months ago. But before it was like twice or three times a week. There was so much garbage in my head. Fucking garbage.
Getting through it though, that’s good.
Speaker 1 (55:52.652)
Yeah, I’m very proud of myself as I fucking should be.
Yeah, that’s good. I want to jump back into something you mentioned before we wrap up around the success of your last one of those releases. I want to talk about the strategy that you undertook for that to be successful, whether it was just a lucky, lucky break or there was something different that you did that time that you weren’t doing in other times that actually worked and we can explore.
I hate lucky breaks. Like I’m like, don’t think they fucking exist. That’s like another thing. My brother, sorry, that not an offense. Like it wasn’t attacking you at all. Not, not at all. I just find it like so funny. Like my brother recently, like he was like, congrats on that thing. You know, my recent collaboration, whatever. And he was like, so lucky, you know,
Okay, the strategy.
Speaker 1 (56:50.978)
You got to work with them. So lucky they hit you up. And I was like, yeah, that is very lucky. But I also have been doing this for 20 years of my life. So it’s like, is true that.
Lucky’s preparation meeting opportunity, they say.
99 % of the time, I still believe there’s like 1 % when things just happen, right? It can happen. But most of the times it’s like, was it a lucky break or, know, no, it wasn’t. But anyway, so once again, I don’t think that was an attack on you at all. So my release, so what made it successful this time? I definitely think that the fact that I approached it differently for sure.
So what was that approach?
So before I would just release songs every month and I would not even do any real promo for them because my goal was to let myself release music because before I couldn’t even release songs because there was so much expectation and so much drama around like, oh my God, I released a song and then it had 11 streams in the first three days. That’s it. I’m done. And then
Speaker 1 (58:07.916)
Also, cause you know, I have a background in Russia where I had a radio hits and all the streams and a deal with a label, whatever, because there was this ego attached to it. So I had to like go super down and end up at the very bottom to kind of like be like, wake the fuck up and just do your work. it. And so, and for the last 12 months, I would just release songs every month without even any preparations, to have, just to build the habits of like doing it.
And so this time I was like, okay, now I have this habit. Now I don’t give a fuck. 11 streams, a million streams, who cares? I just want it out. So I was like, okay, this time, how about we gonna go strategic? And I picked a song and that was a song that was such a big song for me at the time. I wrote it like two years ago and it was, it is about domestic violence. And it was such a
You know, it’s such a sensitive topic and I just really wanted to be the voice for people who go through this horrible experience. And I felt like I had this mission. And so that made me feel like I can’t just release the song and just not do anything for it. So I created content, I created mini series for it. I, you know, talked about it online. And then at the time of the release, I also had a music manager and I didn’t have him before.
And I just did so many extra steps that when I woke up on the day of the release, the things that I did not expect at all happened. So I would work on like one thing expecting, you know, this to happen, but instead other things happen. They were even better than, whatever I had in my head. Well, like, for example, you know, like Spotify supporting me and I don’t really have any relationship with Spotify, you know, I don’t know.
What happened?
Speaker 2 (59:59.778)
So how did that happen?
I actually don’t know. just, woke up and then my song ended up on new music Friday. And I was like, that’s great. They just send me an email like, your song is there. I’m like, well, and then, you know, to end up there, you just have to, like fill out the, fill out a form on Spotify. So it’s like just an official form and any artists can do it. So it’s, it’s not like, you know, with some magic. Yeah, every time.
Fill out the form before.
I would fill it out every time. And so I did not have any expectation that Spotify would ever really support me without having a label or like some connections there. So I just did it just because that’s what we do. And then I was like, happened? Really? What? That was incredible because like to end up on a playlist like that, it’s just, it’s pretty miracle-like. And then the next day I had, I think Oscars were like in a couple of days and
And then, you know, Anora ended up winning so many Oscars and I had a couple of songs there and that was like a pure luck too. You know how my songs ended up there. But also was it really luck? Cause I’ve been working my butt off. Like I’ve been working. But yeah, yeah. So was a lot. Yeah. It was, it was a different approach, but at the same time,
Speaker 1 (01:01:25.966)
It wasn’t really, you know? I did some extra steps, but it’s not like I completely changed it all and I just did this one thing and there was this one magic pill that I took and then it all happened. Fucking doesn’t exist.
It seems like it was stacking skills on top of one another and the first focus was just getting the music out and then the second focus was being a bit more thoughtful about what music you could get out. Would you say that it’s better to do less releases but then have much more strategy around it or to do more releases with just to throw things on the wall and see what sticks approach?
I really don’t think there is a universal answer to that. I really believe that it depends on an artist and how an artist feels at that particular moment. There are some amazing artists who are independent and like Baby No Money, love that guy. And he releases songs, I don’t know how many songs he has out, 70, 100, over 100. It’s like he writes and releases a lot. And there are some artists like Chappell Rhone who, you know,
She releases, she released one song in 2024. And, and I understand they’re like different artists because like one is independent and the other one is different. But what I’m trying to say is that it is different for everybody. for me at the time, it was way more important to release songs every month without any strategy, because any strategy would have, would have just put me, would have made me disappointed again, because
I just had to go through an experience of having no streams and no success, no luck, nothing. Just really appreciate what’s happening right now.
Speaker 2 (01:03:15.17)
get back to the core of putting the music out for the music sake.
Yes, it just had to happen. Also, I feel like, you know, when I had my success in Russia and it happened so fast and big numbers and big everything that made me devalue every other success that I had after that because it was really hard for me to top the first one because, know, it was just big and it happened. But now that I’ve had this experience of like having nobody fucking care about my music or me or just.
just another person, whatever. So now when I get like my little breaks, I fucking cry. I cry so hard because it makes me so happy that these little things, they just are really happening. And it’s just incredible. And I do not devalue anything. Like any views I get, like before I used to be like, at least a million views or I don’t give a fuck. I don’t care about that anymore. Like I just care that people
DM me and they say, I love your music. Even if there’s like freaking 10K views, I’m like, but that’s 10,000 people who watched it. And I did something. It maybe has changed somebody’s life and numbers are great, but at the end of the day, it’s the acts, it’s what I do, it’s the art.
Have you read The Creative Act by Rick Rubin?
Speaker 1 (01:04:42.666)
I listened to his book. Was that the creative act? I think so. Did he have a lot of books? I listened to one of them.
Yeah, he’s amazing. He has a really good book on creativity that I...
Yes, I definitely listen to it. He’s very in tune with, know, with the subconscious and all that stuff. And I like that a lot. Yeah.
He really speaks about just channeling the art and then your sole job is getting the art done and getting it out and the moment it’s out it’s no longer yours and moving on.
Yes, I listened to that book. Yes. No, I agree with that a hundred percent. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And then, you know, the other breakthrough that I had like literally yesterday, blessed with a breakthrough. Thank God. I was talking to my, I was having a brunch with my friends and I just had this epiphany where I realized that all my life I was waiting for a moment, right? For that breakthrough song or
Speaker 1 (01:05:42.346)
some breakthrough opportunity, which put me in a constant, like I was constantly in waiting room, waiting for something to happen, thinking that when that one thing happens, my life will change completely and there’s going to be a different life, different blah, blah, blah. And I realized I was like that fish who is looking for the ocean, being in the ocean, thinking that one day
It’s I’ll be in the ocean, bitch, you’re in the ocean now. And then I realized that, my God, this is happening right now. I’m getting all the opportunities right now. I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing. And when whatever the next big opportunity happens to me, I’m supposed to maintain the beginner’s mindset. And that is the most important thing is when the incredible opportunities happen.
I just have to keep going. I just have to do exactly what I’m doing right now, being like fucking hungry and starving and just doing the thing. It’s exactly what I want to be doing when I’m holding Grammys. Just keep fucking going.
Yeah. So what’s the beginner’s mindset just for those who don’t understand.
The beginner’s mindset is that humble.
Speaker 1 (01:06:56.462)
perception of
That humble mindset when you’re just doing what you love and you get to do that and you have to really work for it.
Just curious.
always curious, like never really saying no to... You know, I just feel like I watched some artists that were, that are like some influencers that were really popping two years ago and I could tell they were so hungry and they were just doing it and they were just, you know, making all these videos and just, just really working. And I look at them now and they’re still working, but I don’t see the same, I don’t feel the same energy. It feels like they...
feel as they should, they feel pretty proud that they got to a point where they are at right now and they’re doing shows and doing all of that, but there’s no hunger anymore. And then I look at some other people, like some other artists who are like constantly hungry. like let’s say Mr. Beast, right? I he’s not an artist, but like he is a great example. The dude, like there’s nobody else like Mr. Beast, like nobody can even compete with him, but he has this beginner, like beginner mindset.
Speaker 1 (01:08:14.776)
this hungry mindset where it’s like, yes, I did this and I have this amount of use and blah, blah, blah, blah, but I can do it even better. And I can even top whatever I had before. And then you just keep going, keep going, keep going. And that energy is everything. I, that is my goal in life to always be that way. To not say no, like I know some artists who are like, no, I’m better than that.
And maybe they are better than that, but if you say no without even thinking first, you’re allowed to say no. You always allowed to say no, but there are some artists who just closed the door thinking that I’m just better than that. And that’s it. And I’m like, no, like look at the opportunity first. The smallest opportunity can bring you the biggest success and you cannot pass on people just because like they don’t have the numbers or opportunities because you know, they don’t have that and that and that.
Like sometimes the treasure is in the smallest thing. So yeah, just have to be the beginner always, fucking always. And never think that you’re the shit. Like I think that I’m the shit at the same time I don’t think I’m the shit.
You know, the dichotomy, I love it. So wrapping up on the music front, if you were to start again from zero today, what would you do to become successful in 2025?
Always.
Speaker 1 (01:09:37.612)
I always feel like I’m at a zero. We just talked about that, you know what I mean? Exactly what I’m doing. Fucking working. I write songs constantly. Like every day I write a song either for a client of mine or for myself. I constantly, I think I posted 467 trial reels in the last 30 days. I constantly am just posting.
Then what would you do? Music. Which is?
Speaker 1 (01:10:06.094)
I constantly am thinking about the next content I want to do. I constantly think, okay, who can I reach out to, you know, and like make a song with or like a video with, and then I don’t even get upset about rejections anymore. I’m like, don’t give a fuck. Like if you’re not going to do it with me, I’ll find somebody else, you know? Like I just constantly, I’m just doing things without even thinking about, like the, the, input is way more important for me than even the output.
But I’m also like not delusional. Like I do realize that if I’m just keep doing the wrong thing, it’s not gonna, you know, it’s not gonna bring me the result that I want. So I have to reflect, but it’s just always fucking working and always just determination. That’s it.
Cool. So wrapping up, want to jump into some general philosophical thoughts and ideas. What’s the kindest thing anyone’s ever done for you?
Kindest thing. I feel like so many things. can’t even... There’s like a...
A kind thing happening a day at least.
Speaker 2 (01:11:18.113)
a kindest.
doesn’t exist, they all are amazing. doesn’t, like, I don’t know, I feel like right now I want to say my boyfriend, because he’s just such a big part of my life. The kindest thing that he does every day is that he really accepts me for who I am. And he doesn’t try to change me. And he’s just there.
And he listens and he cares and he just, he is with me with no agenda and he’s not projecting any bullshit on me. He just sees me the way I am and he loves it. He loves me. And so that’s just like, it’s like an everyday freaking gift that I get, you know, that’s the kindest thing and that’s the most amazing thing. And I do the same for him.
That makes me teary. I’m like, my God.
So how is that kindness impacting how you approach the world?
Speaker 1 (01:12:25.162)
It just, makes me feel so confident. So confident. I’m like, if it doesn’t matter what anybody says to me, I’m like, you can say whatever you want about me online or even to my face. I’m like, as long as I know that, you know, that I’m siding with me and that my partner has like full faith and full trust and like I have his full support.
Really?
Speaker 1 (01:12:54.358)
I don’t even care about anything else. And that gives me so much confidence. I’m like, my person is there for me. My person supports me. What else do I need? It’s my person and my family. That’s it. And so that is, that’s everything. And so I am also where, you know, like I get this beautiful thing and it’s like just, just like Benson Boone song, you know, this beautiful things that I got.
Please stay for real, I’m so grateful. I’m also aware that I have it now and I hope that I will always have that. But I also, I don’t own any of that, you know? It can just go away tomorrow and I should be okay with that. And that’s why I think the relationship works because I’m aware that he doesn’t own me anything and he is...
The way he treats me is just so beautiful and that’s really a gift that he chooses to give me. And I treasure it knowing that any day it can just disappear and that’s okay too. That makes it so valuable. But yeah, my partner and my parents, yeah. Sorry, I was just like, oh my God, that’s so cute.
And also you invited me to this podcast. That is such a kind thing to do.
Speaker 2 (01:14:17.998)
Of course, I’ve been wanting to for a while. It’s been a matter of when.
Thank you so much, for real. That’s like another kindness. That is amazing. Thank you.
I appreciate you coming on. You have an interesting life and an interesting way of viewing the world. So it’s good to chat about it. If you could know the absolute truth to one thing, what would it be?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:14:42.722)
What happens after death?
What do you think happens?
I really do not know. I think about it every fucking day. Every day. Every single day. Every time I go to sleep, I don’t know if I’m going to wake up. And I don’t know how people are so fucking confident. They’re like, yeah, I’m to go to sleep. And then they wake up and they’re like, my God, another day, bitch, another day.
Hahaha
Speaker 2 (01:14:55.918)
Good.
Speaker 2 (01:15:13.794)
Ha ha ha ha
You know, it’s like, I mean, I’m stuck another 10 opportunity. I’m like, that’s amazing. Every time I go to sleep, I’m like, this might be it. It’s been a great run. So if I, if only I knew what happens after death, but I don’t know. I go back and forth. I feel like a comforting thought for me is that we’re all a part of some source, some subconscious, whatever. It’s just like some conscious thing that
I choose to think that when I die, I just recycle. And I don’t know if I can go back to the source or become a dog. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know if I believe that I become a dog though. I don’t know. I think that the, no, they cute, but no, I think that the closest thing for me is that when I die,
become a dog.
Speaker 2 (01:16:00.696)
girl
Speaker 1 (01:16:12.916)
this conscious dies, Consciousness, whatever. But then I continue as something or somebody, but I don’t know what. But in my reality, there is a continuation. My boyfriend, Josh, doesn’t believe in continuation. He just thinks you die, you die. That’s it. I, I don’t know. Maybe that’s a defense mechanism of my psyche that I don’t believe in that. But,
I think there is a continuation, but I don’t know what I’m not religious. So I wish I was, I really truly wish I was, I used to be. it’s so, you know, I feel like that confidence that I have in my partner and in me, a lot of people find that confidence in God, you know, that there’s like, they have this faith and they just feel so excited and so confident and they feel like there’s a God that who’s going to, and the God is going to help them. And it’s so beautiful. And I just don’t relate. I just don’t.
Maybe you’ll come back to it at some point in your life. Maybe.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. I also do not exclude that. Maybe I will. I don’t know. Hopefully. I don’t know.
See? Yeah, the relationship with God is something that has been developing for me over the last probably 12 months, 24 months. Why I was very religious when I was younger, it’s kind of forced into it with family. And then I rejected it. And then I went on my little journey and that journey has kind of made me gone full circle back to it, which is funny. So now I’m...
Speaker 1 (01:17:26.879)
how? Tell me.
Speaker 1 (01:17:32.344)
same.
Speaker 2 (01:17:46.594)
becoming more more open to the idea.
of like, believing in certain religion.
Yeah, I don’t know which one yet. I’m gonna rate all the ones. Then I’ll figure it out.
Yeah, I mean, if it makes sense for you, I think that’s great. I really do.
Stand, stand by, stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (01:18:05.695)
We’ll tell you about God.
This will become a religious podcast. I mean...
Hey. The 85 % of the world is religious. That’s what Chagy Pitti told me. Yeah, I asked. Yeah, I wanted to know how many people are religious, you know? I’m like, how many people have, you know, believe in God and, you know, are a part of a religion? Because that’s a community. That’s like a whole thing. I’m like, how many? And I thought like 50%, 50, 50, right? I’m like, oh, I was wrong.
Very wrong. I think there’s centers in the world now. Big cities tend to become lot more secular. I think less religious. Yeah, I don’t even know if that means secular. I think it was the right word.
Thank you, was.
Speaker 1 (01:18:47.413)
okay.
Speaker 1 (01:18:52.894)
Well, it’s fine. yeah, no, eight to 5%. Yeah, yeah.
I don’t know. No. Not subject to or bound to religious rule. Yeah, I was right. Secular.
Okay, good, good. Your inner critic was like, make sure Adam, make sure you don’t look dumb.
Too stupid.
Speaker 1 (01:19:16.759)
You’re not stupid at all, come on.
So, so wrapping up, what’s one lesson you’d like for everyone to take away from this conversation?
my God, one lesson. I don’t feel qualified for giving any lessons at all. But I think what I would like people to remember after listening to this podcast, you know, is that the most important thing is to accept yourself, be yourself, accept yourself.
Love yourself like it’s your fucking profession. It’s a full-time job, baby, to love yourself. There is only one of you. Literally, you’re born and then you die. There’s only you. That’s it. Nobody, no one else shares your experience with you. They co-share it, right? They’re also on this planet, but really in your mind, there’s only you. You have to love yourself. You absolutely have to.
Even if you feel like you hate yourself, that’s something that I feel like is so important to work on. To find that one thing that you actually like about yourself and capitalize on that. okay, I love how I do this. And then just do it. Get yourself up. Because there is only one. One of you. That’s it. That’s beautiful.
Speaker 2 (01:20:47.424)
Is there anything that you’re excited about that you would like to let the listeners in on at the moment?
Exciting. have a song coming out on April 21st and I collaborated with Team Fight Tactics. It’s an amazing game. so the song is going to be out and I’m super excited about that. It’s a beautiful song and I got to be a part of, you know, the whole experience. It’s amazing. So I’m super excited.
Great. Great. And where can people find you if they’re interested in knowing more?
Instagram, YouTube everywhere, Andy Darling, A-N-D-Y Darling, and their music also on Spotify, like everywhere, just, my God, I hate saying that, but you can just Google. Sounds so bad, but yeah.
Do it.
Speaker 2 (01:21:40.75)
Good. And last question for you is what do you think the meaning of life is?
Okay, last question. What’s the point of it all, Thank you for this fucking... That could be literally a two-hour conversation. That’s not a closer. That’s the point.
Just quickly.
The meaning of life, right? What was the question? Meaning of life? Whatever the fuck you want it to be. That’s your meaning. That is the meaning.
No meaning.
Speaker 1 (01:22:14.314)
Yeah, there’s no and there’s absolute is. No, it’s just like really depends. that’s, that’s another breakthrough that I had recently. I, there’s really no end game here. The end game you’re born and then you die. That’s it. That’s the only two things that happen, right? That’s the, that’s it. And so whatever you want to do in the meantime, like just do it. And I hope that it’s like,
with good intentions and I hope that, you know, people don’t want to intentionally hurt other people or do anything like really wrongful towards other people. But other than that, that actually makes me feel really good. The fact that we all just die. So if you want to, you know, create things like, you know, Elon Musk does, or be the, you know, a mother with five kids and just procreate, it can be anything. But I hope that you
having fun doing it. So I hope that I feel like that is very important to really just be in it, to love what you do, whatever it is what you do. Just fucking have fun. So important. So, I’m just thinking about all these, you know, like motivational stuff and overachievers and like,
fucking wake up at 5am and have 17 businesses and don’t forget to floss.
Speaker 2 (01:23:59.246)
Thank you, Andy. Appreciate you coming on the podcast.
Thank you so much, it was fun. I feel like I was zoned in. I just can’t remember who I am anymore. like, I was really in it.
That’s all right. That’s the goal. And if you’ve made it this far, please go to YouTube. Search that one time with Adam Metwally. Click Subscribe. Like the video. Leave us a comment. Cool.
